Tone Clusters: the Joyce Carol Oates discussion group archive

Tone Clusters moving to Google Groups

2008-06-25T10:29:00.000-07:00

Greetings all,

After more than 10 years of having this discussion group managed in
the same way, it is past time to make a change.

The discussion will be moved to "Google Groups."

I'm making this change for both you as members, and me as manager. The
system currently running the group is very old in technology terms,
and it is increasingly difficult to manage spam, and the separate
message archive.

Under Google Groups, you will still be able to receive messages via
email, as you do now; but you can also view messages on the web site,
where they will be automatically archived.

I will have to ask you to subscribe to the new group -- and if you
wish to post messages you will have to sign up for a free Google
account. Though there is no "cost," signing up for an account is the
price of doing business here.

I understand that making this change will cause us to lose members,
for a number of reasons, but I think in the long term it is the best
thing to do for the group.

The new group page is located here: http://groups.google.com/group/toneclusters?hl=en

I will be sending out a subscription invitation to each of you. I hope
to see you there soon!

If you have questions or comments about this topic, please email me
directly: tinmachine@earthlink.net

Many thanks, and I hope to see you all in the new group very soon!

Randy

WILD NIGHTS

2008-06-23T13:03:00.000-07:00

I am new to the group (new so to speak; I was a charter member back in 1997, I remember some old friends like Cyrano, Steve, Ellen, et al.). Anyway, happy to be back under a new (and rather appropriate, hopefully?) "nome de 'net."

Was just wondering if WILD NIGHTS has already been thoroughly discussed, or if anyone is interested in discussing those stories?...

Best to all! And continued thanks to Randy for maintaining the website, and this group, for all these many years. JCO readers are a special lot.

-North

The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn More

Story

2008-06-20T06:41:00.000-07:00

Hi Everyone:

OK, here is the story for JCO's 60th birthday. For those who weren't

involved, this was one of those serial stories where someone writes a bit,

then someone else writes the next bit, etc. You know, it seems more

coherent now than what I remembered.

Steve

JCO's Birthday Story

Do With Me What I Live For

(only a possible title)

As an elderly maiden lady who, in joyful submission to the traditions

of the

Fruitemps family, has expected her name to come before the public only

through

the announcements of her birth and of her death (all possibility of

marriage

being forever ended for me owing to the weird and unlooked-for actions of

intended, Lt. Col. the Hon. Lysimachus Selbstlieb, formerly of the

Coldcream

Guards, and more recently of Papua New Guinea), it is with the utmost

trepidation that I offer to a general readership the contents—with

commentary—of the Gaspacho Papers. That these papers should have come into

hands (yet I may say that, though they belong to a lady of seventy eight,

hands still are able to inspire the most delightful—if perhaps excessively

gallant—compliments from my great-nephew Gorgias Fruitemps, or Gogo, as he

known within the Family) is itself a cause for speculation. For, not even

once did I ever meet or otherwise communicate with, the late Mrs. Hypatia

Gaspacho de Asís (or Mrs. Hypatia O'Leary Madison

Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst

Rasoumovsky de la Marck Turenne Hogg Gaspacho de Asís, to give her full

name

and, simultaneously, a portion of her biography), yet her executor, Mr.

Frank

Deadeye, has assured me that it was a condition of Mrs. Gaspacho's will

that

her papers be delivered to me, should I be willing to receive them, to

prepare

for publication. And, despite all natural qualms, I have accepted both the

papers and the almost Sisyphean task of editing and explaining them. For,

the reader will discover for himself, the Gaspacho Papers contain the most

striking—indeed shocking—new information not only as to the

accomplishments of

divers members of the Fruitemps family, but concerning the very discovery

America, the assassination of the late President Kennedy, the final stages

the COLD WAR, and nearly every decision of importance concerning the New

York

fashion market during the last fifty years! A heavy charge, I warrant,

but,

as my great-nephew Gogo says, "Aunt Eunice, if you don't know how to pass

all this dirt, no one does." A fine boy, of whom we're especially proud

now

that his little contretemps with the Sheriff's Department has been

settled.

It is perhaps best to begin this account with six sisters, or the Six

Sisters, as they were known throughout the Tippitauga Valley of New York:

Melpomene, Euphrosyne, Amalasuntha, Plectrude, Ludmilla and Madge—the

daughters of the late Abimelech and Mabel Fruitemps. These sisters, nearly

alike enough to pass for sextuplets and yet each entirely different from

the

others, had succeeded on the untimely deaths of their parents (at the

hands,

or, in a sense, at the fins, of Neptune, the family goldfish, in a sudden

frenzy that was entirely unpredicted and never to be repeated again) to

the

eighth largest fortune in the state. In consequence, the Six Sisters were

both feared as possessors of unmeasured, but certainly enormous, power,

and

coveted as being peculiarly eligible heiresses. Many an Astor, Vanderbilt,

Roosevelt or Rockefeller, among other candidates of distinguished family,

asked for the hand of one or another sister, or of all sequentially; or,

the case of Mr. Waldorf Vanderbilt, of all simultaneously—with the

suggestion

that the Six Sisters engage in Russian roulette, the survivor to win both

the

entire fortune and Mr. Vanderbilt. All such suits, however ardent,

steadfastly were turned aside.

Madge Fruitemps received rather fewer offers than her older

siblings—in fact

only two, and these both from gentlemen whose names did not appear in the

social register. This unexpected failure of masculine enterprise commonly

was

attributed to Madge's tainted blood, though as her sisters were entirely

free

of such a regrettable characteristic, and as she could not possibly have

received any taint from either of her parents, all those in a position to

judge agreed that the child must in some wise have tainted her own blood!

This taint appeared in behavior hitherto unknown in a Fruitemps: Madge

spent

an inordinate portion of her time in the company of an almost feral group

young women who, when not loitering outside a certain eatery frequently

visited by the police, kidnapped prominent local businessmen and left them

hanging upside down from telephone poles with the words "DON'T TREAD ON

ME"

branded on their cheeks.

One evening, Madge and her friends stood outside the diner, each

shifting

from foot to foot and tossing switchblades to and fro in a private rhythm.

The sound of car engines starting and stopping, promptly or reluctantly,

blanketed the background. A scent of overdone wieners and of car exhaust

permeated the parking lot's air. Despite the strolling, rushing and lazing

about of dozens of adolescents, a distinct space segregated Madge's group

from

everyone else, until the blood sisters were approached by a man in a

heavily

padded business suit, who wore dark glasses and a fedora.

"Say, if I had time, I'd spend it with you chicks!" he remarked,

grinning at

the witticism.

"What makes you think you have any time?" challenged "Elbows", who,

with

Madge, was the gang's leader. The members of the group suddenly crowded

around Elbows, their masklike faces forming types of rejection. Only one

very

slender, pale blonde girl stood apart, staring at the man with bold

calculation.

"I don't got time," the man admitted. "I gotta give a message to

Madge

Fruitemps and be back in Manhattan in two hours for a heist."

"I'm Madge," declared the blonde—the tallest, longest-legged of these

tall,

long-legged young women. "You don't look like you could have any message I

care about."

The man glared at her, though she couldn't see it because of his dark

glasses. "How 'bout this message: 39 27 11."

Madge's entire skin grew paler than her dead white eyeballs. She

seemed

unable to talk. But, before even a comfortable Madge could have said

anything, the man with a message slumped over as if doing a kneebend. A

small

dart protruded from his neck. From the tiny puncture, a narrow stream of

blood, purple in the diner's neon lights, trickled between the folds of

his

neck until it disappeared into his collar ...

"So, what do you think so far?"

"... um ... well, it's interesting, I guess."

"I KNOW it's INTERESTING, Sissy! Geez, I put my heart and soul into

this

darn story!!"

"Uh, Nancy, will you get mad if I'm really honest with you?"

"Of course not. That's why I invited you over here to read it in the

first

place. I need an honest opinion."

The two high school girls were looking over a rather weighty

manuscript that

lay on a card table in Nancy's bedroom, in a gritty neighborhood of a

gritty

town in the gritty American northeast.

"This story will never make it into The Quill & Scroll!" Sissy

blurted, her

face hot and flushed as if someone had slapped her cheeks hard. "It's just

like the one you submitted last week. And the week before that."

"But I'm not writing it for some dumb high school magazine this

time," said

Nancy. "I'm gonna send this one to a REAL magazine for real money."

Eighteen-year-old Sissy winced and regarded her optimistic classmate

with

something dangerously akin to pity. "But, Nancy, you start out with this

creepy, old-fashioned voice as if Queen Victoria's telling the story. Then

you switch to modern talk ... like all of a sudden we're right here in

1964."

"What'd you think of where the guy gets the poison dart in his neck?

Were

you surprised?"

"Yeah, that was good. Listen, if you want to make some money, you

should

take all this up-to-date stuff about Madge and ... Elbows?...and the diner

and

write a story for True Confessions. Y'know, like Madge runs around with

these

awful, slummy girls until she meets this good-looking policeman ..."

Just then, the door of Nancy's room flew open to a hard kick and

Nancy's

red-haired younger brother ran over to the card table where they were

sitting

with Nancy's manuscript spread out. "Hey, whatcha got there, girly, girly,

girls?"

"None of your business, brat!" Nancy yelled. "And get out of my room

right

now or you're gonna be SORRY!"

"I'm sorry every time I have to look at YOU–n'yuk, n'yuk, n'yuk." The

little

boy replied, with a spirited imitation of his favorite Stooge. "You girls

writing love letters? Nancy's in love with that Kookie guy on tv. Hey,

Nancy,

you still got a big crush on old Kookie Byrnes? Lemme see."

He made a lunge for the manuscript, but Nancy caught his wrist in an

iron

grip. "Darn it, Arnold, you get the hell out of here!"

"OOooo-oooo, Nancy said a swearword!! I'm gonna TELL. You're in big

trouble

now, palsy-walsy." He wrenched away from his sister and darted out of the

room. Nancy slammed the door behind him and bolted it, but they could hear

him singing crazily as he ran downstairs, presumably to

"tell"—"Seventy-seven

Sunset Strip! ... bump! bump!... SEVENTY-SEVEN SUNSET STRIP."

Nancy had always hated Sissy secretly: her full breasts, high cheek

bones,

and that magical swirl of mounting hair parted in the middle with two spit

curls hugging both of her cheeks, so popular during 1964. And it was Sissy

who always got the boys: Sissy, you doing anything on Friday night? Sissy

you want to go to the dance on Saturday? That Bitch is good man; she'll do

anything ... I mean anything. And so they were friends, Nancy and Sissy.

you asked either one they would probably have different stories as to how

they

met. Whose version was correct did not matter really. Wasn't it Picaso who

said we should see things from all sides. But how does one do that? How

does

one see?

It was in seventh grade when they met. Cheerleading try-outs. How

horrifyingly degrading. Jumping, yelling, wearing tight-fitting skirts and

sweaters—such heat-holding polyester. Screaming, "Go, Fight, Win! ... Go,

Fight, Win!" And the judges, who were mostly men, staring and assessing.

Dissecting them. Mr. Klous, for Christ's sake, sitting all the way to the

right and staring just at her, Nancy. While doing the splits on the newly

waxed gym floor, Nancy had suddenly remembered dissecting a frog in Mr.

Klous's class last quarter. How she ran to the bathroom and vomited after

Mr.

Klous had pushed a thousand frog eggs out of the womb of a dead frog

saturated

in formaldehyde. Was that what a woman's life consisted of, preserving

herself? All the skin cream, the exercising, the hair teasing, and tight

sweaters? For this? So Mr. Klous could stare at her with bemusement and

then

write something down on a 3 x 5 index card? Apparently he had written

something good because she had made the squad. She and Sissy both had made

it.

They were excited for one another, genuinely, and became close

friends,

sleeping at each other's house frequently, talking about boys, penises,

vaginal discharge, and how sex worked. Does it go in and then get big? Is

ribbed? Why exactly do you do it in the first place? Rubber? Why is it

called that?

Thoughts like these had rushed into Nancy's head. So fast she felt

dizzy.

Imagining JFK and the bullet (or was it bullets) sinking and exploding in

his

head, entering in one direction and then swiftly forcing an alternative

trajectory, through an unsuspecting artery, vein. And the times they had

stayed up so late and talked about penises. What the hell for? Why the

fascination? I mean doesn't it hurt? That Bitch will get you off like

nothing you could do yourself. And now Nancy was back to the present.

Forcing herself to remember, I must live now. I have to live now. What the

hell is now?

How could Sissy so blatantly criticize her writing? Judge her like

that? As

Sissy was talking to her, she forced her hearing off, as if she were in a

movie and a dramatic scene was about to occur. She saw a pencil on the

desk

where her manuscript lay and thought obsessively, I wish I could erase

her, I

wish I could erase that bitch.

It was thirty-five floors down from her room to the cement. She sat

cooly in

the room, looking out the window across the Detroit River. How many times

had

she and Sissy crossed the border for a drink? Twenty, thirty maybe since

they

turned eighteen? Those quasi-Europeans were liberal.

The building wasn't elegant by any stretch of the imagination. But

the city

was. Motown Records was kicking ass on the radio, Detroit was in its

heyday.

It had been a decade since the Edsel failed, and Ford could do no wrong.

Calling out around the world ... dancing in the street baby.

Her dad had money, but she was damned if he would send any of it to

them.

Her mom had been working as an executive assistant to the vice-president

Ford and did OK. Added to that was the $250,000 inheritance from her

mother's

London socialite aunt, Bunny Bontrager. And though Nancy herself didn't

work,

she and her mother lived a comfortable lifestyle. How far could this world

come crashing down if one of them went to prison for murder.

It is amazing how easy it is to feel alone; a solitude that is thick

and

heavy lingering above her head like smoke. The only thing that could

dissipate the heaviness of her aloneness is the stinging of her anger.

"Damn that Sissy bitch!"

How easy it is to mutter the curses that all the other girls mutter.

In the mirror, curling her hair the next day before school and Sissy'

s words

are still resonating deeply. The only way to fight, she thinks, is to

master

her game. Her sweater tight over her breasts, her lips perfectly lined and

filled in, an even red. "Cunt," she mutters from her perfectly innocent,

perfectly *perfect* lips.

In algebra, she sits next to Mike and feigns apathy. Lining up her x'

s and

y's, her equal signs in vertical lines, she thinks about practice reciting

the

cheers in her head. Go! Right Knee Up! Fight! Arms Out! Win! Arms up!

Scream! Shake Pom-poms wildly! Smile! Go! Fight! Win! For those few

minutes, everyone is beautiful, she thinks, we are all beautiful. It is

after

the game when it all changes. Some girls get rides home and some walk. She

is always walking, she thinks. And that is going to change. Lining up her

x's and her y's and her equal signs, a smile creeps across her face.

Lunch is the symbol of high school status stratification. Tables mean

everything. Some people always have someplace to sit and some stand with

their bright red trays, milk cartons lined up. Like any stratified system,

you work your way up, or at least try to.

She was tired of standing off to the side. She would work way her

up–she was

determined. As her eyes scanned the lunchroom, an idea began to form in

her head.

Her eyes closed and the pieces of the puzzle she was living in began

arrange themselves as algebraic expressions. How odd, she thought, to

imagine

oneself squared–oneself taken to a higher power. The equation half-formed

began to write itself–the components neatly coming together in exquisite

symmetry. How logical! How right! Why did she not think of this before?

A little tinkering here–a minor adjustment there–and she would soon

have her

answer. Balance, she thought–isn't that what they teach us, or attempt to?

The search for answers in mathematics is the search for balance–balance

will

make things RIGHT. Just like on the squad–BALANCE is necessary to perform

correctly, to perform to perfection.

How could she have missed it before? BALANCE.

Her eyes opened and once more she looked around the lunchroom with

her mind

now illuminated by the glaring glow of BALANCE.

The lunchroom was not right–not balanced. There, in the corner, a

group of

gangly boys stood at a table–the ones referred to as "dorks". In her new

heightened awareness, she thought they resembled refugees from the Island

Misfit Toys–their pants were too high, their hair slicked back with

grease–or

is it from oil buildup from not washing? Most of them wore thick glasses

that

did not face their face, and one even had the nose-bridge repaired with

tape.

Her stomach churned at the sight of them–how could she have been so blind?

Another glance across the room–over there! Those girls–a fat herd of

hippos

munching away ... Nancy's sandwich fell from her hands and she began to

feel dizzy.

BALANCE–that one word kept buzzing in her head. You must keep

focused, the

word seemed to be telling her. FOCUS ON ME–FOCUS ON BALANCE.

She closed her eyes and began breathing slowly–rhythmically.

Her life was OUT OF BALANCE.

The dorks, the hippos, that bitch Sissy … she would bring BALANCE to

this

world of hers … she would. She had to.

Sissy criticized her writing. Very well, Sissy would be plugged into

the

equation and let's see if she criticized that! On the business end of that

wonderful algebraic equation.

A smile crossed her lips as she thought of Sissy being divided

further and

further and further down into nothingness. She opened her eyes and was

startled to see Mike standing there, looking quizzically at her.

Mike has blue eyes, the bluest blue eyes, twin cerulean orbs. Eyes to

entrance, to capture and drown. Nancy returns the stare, her chin up, set

firm in defiance of his owning, assessing, oh so male gaze.

"Hi, Nancy," he says, or slurs, the result of one too many blows to

the head.

"I, uh, wonder if you'd, uh, like to come along to the band tonight."

She's watched from the audience before, watched Mike (vocals, lead

guitar) as

he plays and sings, the clangour from the hall's bad acoustics. Six feet

four

he stands, hair down to his shoulder blades, arms like tree-boughs,

muscles

corded, making his twin wolf's-head tattoos into bas reliefs, leather

trousers

cut tight about his crotch.

How Nancy has wished for a closer union with Mike, one consummated in

the

back of his car, tongues entwining, as his hand blindly scrabbles at the

clasp

of her brassiere.

"Yes, Mike," she says. "I'd be delighted." The last word a melisma.

After school, Nancy went straight to her room. She took a sheet from

her

orchid-scented stationary, a gift from her grandmother and the inspiration

for

Eunice Fruitemps. It was time for some balancing.

Eunice + Madge + Elbows + Dart = Great

-Eunice -Eunice

------------------------------------------

Madge + Elbows + Dart = true detective = crap

therefore, invalid equation

39 + 27 / 11 = the story's secret, which Sissy stupidly refuses to

understand.

Story * Sissy = 0

Story = great; therefore story valid as is.

The Quill and Scroll > IDIOTIC!!!

Two braids + Sissy = class

Two braids + Sissy + two scissor snips = humor

Criticism <> 0; fiction = life

Arnold = Curly = 77 Sunset Strip

Arnold + Sissy = annoyance

Freedom = -Arnold-Sissy

Sissy + sex = slut + Sissy bitch

Nancy + Mike = magic - Sissy bitch

Nancy + Mike = young love

Dorks + Hippos + Bitch + Nancy + Mike = the entire universe

-(Nancy + Mike) -(Nancy+Mike)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dorks + Hippos + Bitch + n (Where n = everyone else) = Nancy + Mike

Okay, she thought with a Puckish smile, let's prove these statements.

BALANCE THEOREM

1. Dorks + Hippos + Bitch + n = Mike + Nancy

2. (Dorks + Hippos) + Bitch + n = (Mike + Nancy)

3. (Losers) + Bitch + n = young love

4. Losers + n(Bitch) = pleasure

5. n(Bitch) = Losers by degree of school social register

6. Losers + Losers = Losers

7. Losers = young love

8. Losers = Winners

QED, balance achieved

Nancy looked over her calculations, making sure none of the errors

that

haunted her schoolwork appeared. Perfect. She considered including the

work

in the story, just to give some poor portly college professor, or other

literary critic, something to obsess over. Nah, she decided, it's served

its

purpose, cutting the stress. She tore loose the sheet and slid it into the

garbage can. Touching her perfectly coiffed hair, Nancy rose to shower for

her date.

When she opened the door to her bathroom, however, Nancy clasped her hand

her heart, for there in front of her, standing at the sink and washing

what

appeared to be blood from her arm, was Madge Fruitemps! Nancy's legs

collapsed like two sticks of bubblegum, and she fell back against the

doorjamb.

"Pull yourself together, Nance," said Madge. "We've got to save

Knees."

"... save ... Knees ...?"

Nancy glanced at the bathtub and saw that it was full of blood.

The room gained a vivid chartreuse glow, the walls undulated, the

floor

became a porous sponge and Nancy fell through its membrane and down into

darkness.

* * *

She awoke to a scream which wasn't a scream.

The world was still, and a soft yellow light drifted across her face.

Nancy

stared at the familiar squares of the ceiling tiles in her bedroom.

Another scream–the telephone bleating at what seemed like

supernatural

decibels. Nancy picked up the receiver and brought it to her ear. "Hello?"

she said quietly.

"Nancy?" A man's voice: strong, gravelly, threatening, unbalanced.

"Y-yes..."

"It's Mike. When do you want me to pick you up?"

When do you want. Me. To pick you up. Me to pick. You up. When. Words

stumbled through her mind as sounds free of any association.

"I ... um ... I'm not sure..."

"Do you still want to go?"

Go. Go. Yes! Yes–go! "Yes!" Had she screamed, or was her voice always

that loud?

"Can I pick you up at seven, then?"

"Sure. Seven." Seven: a number. 7. There was something else, it wasn'

complete, it didn't balance, there needed to be something more...

"Great. I'll see you then."

The line went dead and Nancy thought for a moment that she had gone

deaf,

that she would hear only the hum of the dial tone for the rest of her

life.

She replaced the receiver, and silence enveloped her.

Seven.

There was more to it than that. Another number, a whole number

system, a

universe of integers. Where were the patterns? What was the meaning? How

could it balance?

Nancy sat up. She was in her bedroom, on her bed, safe. She had not

moved

beyond her bedroom, she had not seen Madge in the bathroom–there was no

Madge,

there was no Knees. There was no blood.

A knock on her door. Nancy swung her head around as if someone had

slapped

her, and stared at the door. Another knock.

"Hey, you in there?" It was Arnold. What was he doing here? What did

he want?

"Go away!" Nancy said, but it came out as a dry whisper.

"Girly! You in there!"

The knob began to turn. Nancy clenched her fists; her fingernails

jammed

into her palm, and she was sure she had broken the skin. She was hollow

with

what had been fear but what was now just an emptiness. It was only Arnold,

after all.

The door opened slowly, and Arnold peeked into the room.

"Why didn'tja answer me, Nancy-girl?" Arnold said. "Why you just

sitting there?"

"I ... have to get ready. I'm going out, Arnold." I want you to go

away,

she thought. I want you to die. I have to save Knees.

Arnold walked toward her slowly. His eyes focused on her, unblinking.

stretched out his hand.

"No..." Nancy whispered. Her muscles tightened, she needed to stand

up, she

needed to move away from the bed and away from Arnold and away, away--

"I just want to touch your skin, Nancy. It's very smooth."

"... no ..."

"Come on, Nancy. Smile for me, come on. Let me touch your skin. He

won't

do this for you. Mike won't. You think he will, Nancy, but he won't. You

have to come with me." His hand, cold as the barrel of her father's

Winchester, touched the side of her neck.

The phone rang.

It was a familiar sound but she couldn't place it. Twice, three

times. A

mantra rising from somewhere inside her, while cold spread across her

chest,

out from the dart in her neck. Then the focus shifted. The spell broke.

Arnold's shoulder was nearly dislocated by the force and suddenness with

which she grabbed his arm. She spun him around and pulled his wrist up

high

behind his back.

You sniveling little spy; you've been watching me. You just wait. I

warned

you!." The little wimp squirmed and whined. You might have thought she was

killing him. He didn't even imagine what she was capable of. One of these

days he'd find out ... eavesdropping on her like that. She shoved him

against

the wall. "Get out of here!"

He moved toward the door, a bright red globule of blood already

forming under

his nose. Wouldn't you know it? It was always the same with him. And she

hadn't even touched his precious nose … run crying to Mom … splash it

around

like it was some stupid crime scene. She imagined the blood spreading out

across the floor … so much you could slip. If she were to go down there

now

she might slip on it … go skating across the floor maybe, while her mother

shouted at her about picking on Arnold. What did her mother know? Had she

ever slipped on blood? Why couldn't she see the little snit was doing it

purpose? She would scream up any second, "NAANN-cy, get down here right

now!"

But what did she know? "Had she?" she wanted to ask, to scream at

her, "on

red, red blood?"

The ringing had stopped. She walked to the bathroom. Should she

shower or

not? It was getting late, but she was going to be grounded for sure. She

felt

trapped. "This place is a cage." Her own body was a cage … her brain. She

couldn't get out. Oh well, she could write the paper for English class …

Cheever, "The Geometry of Love." Thinking of English class reminded her of

that damned bitch, Sissy. She remembered spring vacation when Sissy had

told

her about Mike's penis. It was probably too big for her anyway. You worked

your way up … or at least tried to. Maybe she should start with one of

Arnold's hairless friends. Shit, how was she ever going to get anywhere at

school … couldn't even get out of this stupid house to listen to a little

music. She undressed … folded the bloody napkin into a ball and tossed it

into the trash. Basket! … should be on the Globetrotters … turned on the

water … cold. Sissy had told her about the hair Mike had all over his

body.

That was the code but the stupid bitch didn't understand it. (Needed a

couple

dozen short, swift axe strokes to open up her mind. Maybe more.

Twenty-seven

should do it. She knew where she could put THAT in the story!)

Everything was off-balance. She thought back to the equation …

realized the

error. She'd reduced herself to a square root. Tomorrow she'd probably be

having lunch with the hippos … or the dorks. She tested the water … warm.

She stepped in under the spray. From below, she heard her mother shout,

"NAANN-cy, get down here right now!"

"Mother, I'm in the shower!"

What was happening didn't fit anywhere in her story.

Dressing for her date, she rummages for nice clothes, settling on a

beautiful

long white sundress. An angel in white yet dressed to kill–as they call

it.

Dressing for Mike, for her mother and Arnold, and for Sissy who would

certainly be there tonight. But wasn't the dress too long? Wouldn't it get

in the way? Heading downstairs to the kitchen where her mother squats over

Arnold in a chair, gently stroking his nose with an ice cube to stop the

bleeding; upon seeing Nancy she says, "If you think you're going out

tonight

after what you did to your brother!" but Nancy just stops at the

silverware

drawer, the silverware inside tarnished badly, her hand reaching in and

grasping a knife, a sharp one. Simply touching it brings her calm.

Like the sky she notices outside the window. A thin line of clouds, bright

red from the setting sun, a long streak straight to the west. Straight

her new plan for the night, suddenly forming, inspiring, like when she

writes.

Maybe she would head west after tonight, after getting rid of them.

"I'm sorry mother," she says. "And I'm sorry to you too Arnold.

Things got

out of hand. I'm sorry. I won't do it again. At least I shouldn't." Then

she withdraws the knife from the drawer, stunning her mother and

squelching

Arnold's pout.

"But this should do."

She also thinks about copping the ice cube out of her mother's hand

and

swallowing it, after all Arnold's nose has stopped bleeding, they

prolonged

the scene merely for her benefit–but that was going too far, wasn't it?

What

about using the knife then and there, right in front of her mother, to

shorten

the dress, to ruin it? But was that ruining it? Or improving it? How far

would she go?

"Did you know that the square root of a number is still the square of

another

number? Hmm? Did you know that?"

She uses the knife out on the front porch while waiting for Mike to

pull into

the driveway. She cuts the dress a little too short, but at least it was

still even!

Then her plan, in motion:

So easy to convince Mike to include Sissy on their date. Mike already knew

Sissy would be there, but wouldn't it be better if she came with us?

Wouldn't

you like that? That bitch will do anything I hear. At least I hope so, don

't you?

Then getting Sissy to come with them after stopping at her house, Sissy

not

quite ready, in fact still in her cheerleader's outfit after practice.

Nancy

convincing her not to change, to just come straight along. Sissy asks, why

you skip practice? Because I'm going to cheer tonight, for Mike. We can

practice tonight, come on. But you're not in your outfit. Doesn't matter,

come on.

And–in the moment while Sissy goes back inside to grab her

purse–telling Mike

that she will drive, that they will make a quick stop by Lake St. Clair

before

going to the show. We have the time, don't we? Besides, isn't it what you

really want? And no matter what happens, just trust me. You have to trust

me. Don't interfere. Just let it happen ...

But behind the wheel and speeding toward the lake a slight doubt

creeps in.

It's as if she knows the ending, but just can't see her way there. Wasn't

everything as it should be? Driving, in control, in possession of the

keys,

with music playing loudly out rolled down windows. But how would she get

Sissy, on the seat beside her, into the trunk, and keep Mike, in the back

seat

and already immune to blows to the head, where he was? Besides, she needed

him awake, didn't she? What would she do if she were writing this? But she

was writing it, in a sense. And no matter what she needed Sissy in the

trunk,

pounding wildly to get out, while Nancy lay on top of Mike in the

backseat,

propped up on her knees and elbows to see the code in his chest hairs,

letting

Mike work his way up into her, because wasn't that the key–working one's

way

up? Go! Fight! Win!

* * *

Hey, it's Mike Fruitemps. Aunt Eunice was calling me Gogo when she

posted

before. She and my grandma and some of the other old relatives always do

that. Because my parents named me Gorgias M. Fruitemps. But I like Mike.

Anyway, I'm posting this 'cause I want to explain something. See, Aunt

Eunice

just died. We didn't expect it, but it's ok. She was so old and

everything.

But nobody knew that she had a PC. Even E-mail. And she posted this stuff

the Internet. But she didn't finish it. Ooh, just a minute. I gotta itch.

So, me and my friends, we thought we'd finish her thing for her. Just

make up

something cool. Because, see, there's no such thing as the Gaspacho

Papers.

We looked, and we couldn't find them. And this lawyer didn't know anything

about them. I think that Aunt Eunice had, what's that disease called that

old

people get? So, we just tried to make up a good story. Because Aunt Eunice

had already posted that stuff you read.

Anyway, I don't think what we wrote was exactly the same as what Aunt

Eunice

wrote. I wanted to kind of make it fit in. But Nancy and Sissy and Arnold,

don't think their parts were the same. Not even mine. I guess the people

now don't think like Aunt Eunice. Of course, you never saw her staring at

crotches and boobs. Not like some people, SISSY and ARNOLD. But it's ok.

I don't think any of us sound too much like Aunt Eunice. We kind of all

agree

about that. Even though our part is more cool than Aunt Eunice's part.

Though Arnold HAD to put in stuff about math and codes. No wonder he's not

too popular. And he's also short. So anyway, we said we'd better stop. But

we've already posted the stuff you read after Aunt Eunice's stuff. So I

wanted to explain. Damn, 'scuse me. I gotta itch again.

I don't know about most of the things that Aunt Eunice was writing

about. I

don't really care about the old days. Because they're dead. So I didn't

know

that somebody killed this President Kennedy. Nancy told me about it.

'Cause

she's a history major. Somebody's gotta be. It's too bad Aunt Eunice

didn't

say anything to me. I could of made one of my jokes with her. "Do you mean

they HAD rifles in 1963? They didn't have to use clubs?" I was good at

joking with Aunt Eunice. Though she was kind of funny lately. Didn't laugh

as much. Probably 'cause of her disease or something. I didn't know about

the Cold War or that other stuff, either. I'm glad I didn't know about the

Cold War, 'cause summer is my favorite time. Nancy knows about that war.

But

she's a hot babe, so it's ok. I could see Sissy and Arnold being in a Cold

War. Just joking, folks.

But it's ok. Aunt Eunice liked me. She left me a lot of money. Nobody

knew

she had that much. Not even her CPA. But she did. Now I do. I deserve it.

I was nicer to her than everybody usually is to old people. I'm going to

get

married to Nancy, now. Sissy was going to be the maid of honor. But I

don't

know if she still wants to do it. She's mad about that the part about

being

locked in the trunk. Be cool, Sis. It's just a story. And I still want you

as the best man, Arnold. But wear platform shoes. Hell, wait a minute. I

gotta itch.

Me and Nancy are going to Dallas for our honeymoon. Nancy says she

wants to

look at the Book Depository. Not very romantic, to me. But hey, you gotta

somewhere on your honeymoon. And Dallas isn't cold. Also, it's near Cousin

Madge's prison. So we might visit her. She got out of that gang that Aunt

Eunice posted about. Then she was a stockbroker. But she got busted in the

old days. I think it was around ten years ago. People always did give her

crap. That's what the Family says. Except not her sisters.

I guess that's all. We're gonna close down this site when we figure

out how.

We tried before. But Arnold's hard disk got wiped out. I don't know how

Aunt

Eunice could do that. But we'll figure it out. So you don't need to post

any

messages here. Ooh, God damn. I got jock itch. I guess I'm gonna put some

cream on it. Well, it's better than warts.

Anyway, have a good one.

Mike

RE: JCO: Trouble Sending Story

2008-06-20T05:32:00.000-07:00

Hi Everyone:

OK, the story should have come through by now, and it hasn't. I've sent it three times, twice just using jco@usfca.edu as in the reply line, and once using owner-jco@usfca.edu as in the From line below. Based on how long it takes my other messages to get through, it should have made it by now. I don't know why these messages that I send wouldn't show up when my other messages do. Randy, is there any possibility that the fact that the story content has been through several computers and servers means that it has picked up something that your software thinks it should block?

Anyway, if you've got the story, Cyrano, maybe you can try sending it.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jco@usfca.edu [mailto:owner-jco@usfca.edu]On Behalf Of jandsmerritt
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:09 AM
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

Hi Cyrano:

I sent it, but for some reason it doesn't seem to have come through. I'll try again.

Steve

Hi, Steve. Yes, email it, please, Steve. It was a lot of fun. I thought you were the alpha & omega on that project. ;> } Nice job!

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/18/2008 8:17:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jandsmerritt@earthlink.net writes:

Hi Cyrano:

I plead guilty to being first and last contributor. I've found the story and can e-mail it later in the day. JCO certainly doesn't need to fear the competition, but we did manage to pack in an awful lot of allusions to her work.

Steve

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-20T05:08:00.000-07:00

Hi Cyrano:

I sent it, but for some reason it doesn't seem to have come through. I'll try again.

Steve

Hi, Steve. Yes, email it, please, Steve. It was a lot of fun. I thought you were the alpha & omega on that project. ;> } Nice job!

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/18/2008 8:17:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jandsmerritt@earthlink.net writes:

Hi Cyrano:

I plead guilty to being first and last contributor. I've found the story and can e-mail it later in the day. JCO certainly doesn't need to fear the competition, but we did manage to pack in an awful lot of allusions to her work.

Steve

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-20T04:56:00.000-07:00

Hi, Eric. Yes. The Mulvanneys -- another good instance: Patrick's clumsy, gruff attempts to comfort and avenge his sister's honor (while she harbors no thoughts of revenge, ironically, and is busy rebuilding a new life for herself outside the sheltering family circle.)

You will definitely get a copy of the group story either from Steve or me.

Time to close down the computer til Tuesday. Have a good weekend, all

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/20/2008 7:02:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erickarl78@hotmail.com writes:

Hi Cyrano
Although I didn't participate in the group story, I'd love to read it.

The other title which immediately sprung to mind reading the copy for MSML (which I just received yesterday!) is We Were the Mulvanneys. In terms of narrative it seems quite similar: the son of a once prominent family searches for and reveals the truth in his narrative, focusing specifically on his sister. Of course, I'm sure the content is much different.

Best
Eric

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RE: JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-20T04:02:00.000-07:00

Hi Cyrano
Although I didn't participate in the group story, I'd love to read it.

The other title which immediately sprung to mind reading the copy for MSML (which I just received yesterday!) is We Were the Mulvanneys. In terms of narrative it seems quite similar: the son of a once prominent family searches for and reveals the truth in his narrative, focusing specifically on his sister. Of course, I'm sure the content is much different.

Best
Eric

From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:58:42 -0400
Subject: Re: JCO: My Sister, My Love
To: jco@usfca.edu

Hi, Christa. Looks like Steve has a copy of the group story in his computer. Maybe he will be able to email it to this site. If not, I'll scan it in later. No need for reimbursement -- it will be a pleasure.

    Haven't received my copy of MSML yet but I'm recalling the brother/sister fiction of JCO: them, Angel of Light, and of course the very early short story "Legacy" in, I think, the collection By the North Gate. No doubt other members recall other titles.

   Happy Summer Solstice.

   Cyrano

In a message dated 6/19/2008 11:57:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotEnoughKittens@aol.com writes:

ROFL, Cyrano is right, it's just a book----but I remember sitting in front of Annie Proulx "Shipping News" with MUCH the same attitudes and terrors----in fact I never did finish it. My 86 yr old mother zipped right through it and loved it!

All of us in the group are so bright and intense that we sometimes need to remind ourselves---it IS just a book.   Although I say this with bated breath, there are several JCO books that I read about halfway through and then put down, saying NO---just NO. Then there are others that have changed my life and make her what she for me, one of the 20th and 21st centuries' greatest writers.

Hugs

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i'm Talkathon. Check it out!

Re: JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-20T03:58:00.000-07:00

Hi, Christa. Looks like Steve has a copy of the group story in his computer. Maybe he will be able to email it to this site. If not, I'll scan it in later. No need for reimbursement -- it will be a pleasure.

Haven't received my copy of MSML yet but I'm recalling the brother/sister fiction of JCO: them, Angel of Light, and of course the very early short story "Legacy" in, I think, the collection By the North Gate. No doubt other members recall other titles.

Happy Summer Solstice.

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/19/2008 11:57:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotEnoughKittens@aol.com writes:

ROFL, Cyrano is right, it's just a book----but I remember sitting in front of Annie Proulx "Shipping News" with MUCH the same attitudes and terrors----in fact I never did finish it. My 86 yr old mother zipped right through it and loved it!

All of us in the group are so bright and intense that we sometimes need to remind ourselves---it IS just a book. Although I say this with bated breath, there are several JCO books that I read about halfway through and then put down, saying NO---just NO. Then there are others that have changed my life and make her what she for me, one of the 20th and 21st centuries' greatest writers.

Hugs

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-19T20:57:00.000-07:00

ROFL, Cyrano is right, it's just a book----but I remember sitting in front of Annie Proulx "Shipping News" with MUCH the same attitudes and terrors----in fact I never did finish it. My 86 yr old mother zipped right through it and loved it!

All of us in the group are so bright and intense that we sometimes need to remind ourselves---it IS just a book. Although I say this with bated breath, there are several JCO books that I read about halfway through and then put down, saying NO---just NO. Then there are others that have changed my life and make her what she for me, one of the 20th and 21st centuries' greatest writers.

Hugs

Christa

P.S. Of course I haven't started trying to read My Sister My love, yet---time to order it!

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: Re: group story by JCO list

2008-06-19T20:51:00.000-07:00

Dear Cyrano,

Have a splendid time on vacation, and of course there's no hurry----any time it's convenient for you. And please let me reimburse you for any costs that you might incur in doing that!

Best wishes

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-19T16:50:00.000-07:00

Hi, Steve. Yes, email it, please, Steve. It was a lot of fun. I thought you were the alpha & omega on that project. ;> } Nice job!

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/18/2008 8:17:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jandsmerritt@earthlink.net writes:

Hi Cyrano:

I plead guilty to being first and last contributor. I've found the story and can e-mail it later in the day. JCO certainly doesn't need to fear the competition, but we did manage to pack in an awful lot of allusions to her work.

Steve

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-19T16:48:00.000-07:00

Relax, Jakon. It's just a book

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/18/2008 4:50:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jakon247@gmail.com writes:

I think this is the first book that has ever intimidated me – even before the many reviews and before I've given the first few pages a shot. I've had the advance reading copy on my desk for weeks, and the hard copy for days, and all I can manage is to crack it open and glance at a few words here and there.

Perhaps it's the style I'm not accustomed to...novella in a novel, footnotes, interviews, font changes, post-it-notes. I think it is brilliant, and this adds to my intimidation. Will I be able to get everything out of it? Will I completely understand it? Is it above me?

I've snatched up everything by JCO in the past and haven't felt this feeling before.

So, I look forward to discussing the latest with you all, and I'll make an attempt to overcome my fears tonight.

Am I alone when it comes to confronting the work of an artist like her, or is it just me?

-Thanks- jakon

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

JCO: Re: group story by JCO list

2008-06-19T16:47:00.000-07:00

Hi, Christa. I'm about to go on vacation for a few days, but when I return I will try to find way to scan the story pages into an email.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/19/2008 12:45:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotEnoughKittens@aol.com writes:

Cyrano, Wow, I am so impressed you have it!!! I would gladly pay you or anyone else shipping or mailing charges it that would be appropriate----I remember just coming on the board then and being too shy to participate......

Best wishes

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-18T21:44:00.000-07:00

Cyrano, Wow, I am so impressed you have it!!! I would gladly pay you or anyone else shipping or mailing charges it that would be appropriate----I remember just coming on the board then and being too shy to participate......

Best wishes

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

JCO: My Sister, My Love

2008-06-18T13:50:00.000-07:00

I think this is the first book that has ever intimidated me – even before the many reviews and before I've given the first few pages a shot. I've had the advance reading copy on my desk for weeks, and the hard copy for days, and all I can manage is to crack it open and glance at a few words here and there.

Perhaps it's the style I'm not accustomed to...novella in a novel, footnotes, interviews, font changes, post-it-notes. I think it is brilliant, and this adds to my intimidation. Will I be able to get everything out of it? Will I completely understand it? Is it above me?

I've snatched up everything by JCO in the past and haven't felt this feeling before.

So, I look forward to discussing the latest with you all, and I'll make an attempt to overcome my fears tonight.

Am I alone when it comes to confronting the work of an artist like her, or is it just me?

-Thanks- jakon

RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-18T05:16:00.000-07:00

Hi Cyrano:

I plead guilty to being first and last contributor. I've found the story and can e-mail it later in the day. JCO certainly doesn't need to fear the competition, but we did manage to pack in an awful lot of allusions to her work.

Steve

Hi, Christa. I have the whole story -- in hard copy. I was the second contributor, and I think about 12 people added-on to the story. The person who wrote the first contribution -- Steve? -- also wrote the conclusion. Everyone, except the first contributor, was anonymous. It was fun and resulted in a wild yarn indeed. Does anyone still have it in a condition to email? Is it somewhere on the JCO webpage?

Cyrano

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-18T04:37:00.000-07:00

Hi, Christa. I have the whole story -- in hard copy. I was the second contributor, and I think about 12 people added-on to the story. The person who wrote the first contribution -- Steve? -- also wrote the conclusion. Everyone, except the first contributor, was anonymous. It was fun and resulted in a wild yarn indeed. Does anyone still have it in a condition to email? Is it somewhere on the JCO webpage?

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/18/2008 1:00:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NotEnoughKittens@aol.com writes:

Good Lord, Gary, I remember that----I also remember that I never got to see the whole story, but other members may have!

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T22:00:00.000-07:00

Good Lord, Gary, I remember that----I also remember that I never got to see the whole story, but other members may have!

Christa

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T15:20:00.000-07:00

In a message dated 6/17/2008 8:07:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Cyranomish writes:

It was a pretty good story. I have a hard copy stowed away someplace. Does anyone have a copy to post here?

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/17/2008 7:44:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ahris@yahoo.com writes:

Long-standing members of this list may remember the
> tribute story some of us wrote for her 60th. Was
> that really ten years ago?
>
> Gary
>

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T05:07:00.000-07:00

It was a pretty good story. I have a hard copy stowed away someplace. Does anyone have a copy to post here?

Cyrano

In a message dated 6/17/2008 7:44:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ahris@yahoo.com writes:

Long-standing members of this list may remember the
> tribute story some of us wrote for her 60th. Was
> that really ten years ago?
>
> Gary
>

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T04:44:00.000-07:00

I thought the same thing, Gary, with the same
surprise! Ten years!

Birthday greetings to one and all.

Cheers,

-anthony

--- Gary Couzens <gjcouzens@btinternet.com> wrote:

> And a happy 70th to Joyce Carol Oates!
>
> Long-standing members of this list may remember the
> tribute story some of us wrote for her 60th. Was
> that really ten years ago?
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carol Windley
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:26 AM
> Subject: RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol
> Oates was born.
>
>
>
> Thank you Jane for this (Today in Literature). I'm
> kind of a silent member of the discussion group, I
> admit, but today I was thinking of Joyce Carol Oates
> on her birthday with immense gratitude for the
> pleasure her novels and short stories have brought
> me since I first read Bellefleur back in the 1980s.
> I've just finished reading Wild Nights and
> especially loved the story of Emily Dickinson's
> return to earth in the form of a valued (and
> valuable!) and strong-willed robot. Who else could
> write such an amazing story and make it seem
> possible, even inevitable, but Joyce Carol Oates? No
> one, I think!
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: jward1108@hotmail.com
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol
> Oates was born.
> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:44:21 -0500
>
>
>
http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=06/16/2008
>
> June 16, 2008
> Joyce Carol Oates: Reap & Sow
> On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.
> One of contemporary literature's most productive
> writers, Oates has more sections in her bibliography
> than most others have individual entries. At the
> rate she publishes these numbers may be unreliable,
> but they give the idea: 46 novels and novellas, 27
> story collections, 8 poetry collections, 5 play
> collections, 3 opera librettos, 1 children's book, 9
> essay and non-fiction collections, 16 anthologies
> edited or co-edited. Plus the creative writing job
> at Princeton, and the talks, newspaper articles,
> etc. Oh, and the 6 screenplays, sold but not yet
> produced (not to be confused with the 8 movies which
> have been made from her books but not adapted by
> her).
>
> There is something more than "prolific" going on
> here -- some say Oates has the "midnight disease,"
> hypergraphia -- but the writing bug bit early and
> hard. She began making picture stories at age three,
> with pretend writing underneath each frame. She
> remembers these to be "complicated narratives," and
> that many were done on the backs of her father's
> sheets of sandpaper. She remembers getting the gift
> of Alice in Wonderland from her grandmother:
>
> If you could transpose yourself into a
> girl of 8, in 1946, in a farming community in
> upstate New York north of Buffalo, imagine the
> excitement of opening so beautiful a book to read a
> story in which a girl of about your age is the
> heroine; imagine the excitement of being taken along
> with Alice, who talks to herself continually, just
> like you. . . .
>
> She had written "thousands of pages of prose" by
> the time the same grandmother bought her a
> typewriter, Oates now fourteen. She immediately
> began "consciously training myself by writing novel
> after novel" -- some dozen of them, she estimates,
> all thrown away as soon as completed. There were
> some boys and some groups at Syracuse University,
> but mostly there was getting top grades, and the
> typewriter. Classmates estimate a novel a semester;
> sorority sisters gave her the room most able to
> muffle the all-night clickity-clack.
>
> Joyce Carol Oates may have been the Emily Brontë
> of Lockport, New York -- shy, isolated, chaste, lost
> in her own fictive kingdom -- but there is more than
> Gothic imagination to all the violence and sexuality
> in her books. She recalls school as her introduction
> to an inbred "underworld" of "incredible cruelty,
> profanity, obscenity," the farm boys "giggling,
> gloating, rolling their eyes." She was molested
> behind the school outhouse, the experience even in
> 1993 still "so vivid in my memory, surrounded by
> such powerful inchoate emotions." In Foxfire:
> Confessions of a Girl Gang, Maddy Wirtz is a teenage
> girl growing up in a blue-collar upstate New York
> town in the 1950s. She "was the one perceived as
> having the power of words"; her chronicle of the
> gang's activities was to make it real, and be
> accomplished on the used typewriter she had saved
> hard to purchase at her uncle's store. The price is
> not only raised but changed at the last moment, in a
> back room; Maddy manages to escape, and report back
> to the sisterhood her disgust at what almost
> happened. Foxfire payback will initiate Maddy into
> violence, and begin an escalating series of revenges
> on a male and stupid world.
>
> Things will spiral out of control, but Maddy, at
> least, moves on -- to become an astronomer, and
> acquire "the proper telescopic instrument for
> examining look-back time." She remains tattooed with
> the gang's name, and passion: "FOXFIRE BURNS AND
> BURNS! FOXFIRE IS NOW!"
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
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Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T04:36:00.000-07:00

My Mom's birthday too. Anyone reading My Sister, My Love yet?

Best,

Cyrano

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-17T03:48:00.000-07:00

Hi,

it's so nice to see that this list still exists!

I haven't read a JCO novel for some time, but both her journal and Gravedigger's Daughter are on my Summer List - the list of books that I start compiling already in March, the ones that I want to give my full attention to and be able to read uninterrupted for hours and hours if I want to.

/Ellinor

From: gjcouzens@btinternet.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:36:25 +0100

And a happy 70th to Joyce Carol Oates!

Long-standing members of this list may remember the tribute story some of us wrote for her 60th. Was that really ten years ago?

Gary

----- Original Message -----

From: Carol Windley

To: jco@usfca.edu

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:26 AM

Subject: RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

Thank you Jane for this (Today in Literature). I'm kind of a silent member of the discussion group, I admit, but today I was thinking of Joyce Carol Oates on her birthday with immense gratitude for the pleasure her novels and short stories have brought me since I first read Bellefleur back in the 1980s. I've just finished reading Wild Nights and especially loved the story of Emily Dickinson's return to earth in the form of a valued (and valuable!) and strong-willed robot. Who else could write such an amazing story and make it seem possible, even inevitable, but Joyce Carol Oates? No one, I think!

Carol

From: jward1108@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:44:21 -0500

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=06/16/2008

June 16, 2008
Joyce Carol Oates: Reap & Sow
On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born. One of contemporary literature's most productive writers, Oates has more sections in her bibliography than most others have individual entries. At the rate she publishes these numbers may be unreliable, but they give the idea: 46 novels and novellas, 27 story collections, 8 poetry collections, 5 play collections, 3 opera librettos, 1 children's book, 9 essay and non-fiction collections, 16 anthologies edited or co-edited. Plus the creative writing job at Princeton, and the talks, newspaper articles, etc. Oh, and the 6 screenplays, sold but not yet produced (not to be confused with the 8 movies which have been made from her books but not adapted by her).

There is something more than "prolific" going on here -- some say Oates has the "midnight disease," hypergraphia -- but the writing bug bit early and hard. She began making picture stories at age three, with pretend writing underneath each frame. She remembers these to be "complicated narratives," and that many were done on the backs of her father's sheets of sandpaper. She remembers getting the gift of Alice in Wonderland from her grandmother:

If you could transpose yourself into a girl of 8, in 1946, in a farming community in upstate New York north of Buffalo, imagine the excitement of opening so beautiful a book to read a story in which a girl of about your age is the heroine; imagine the excitement of being taken along with Alice, who talks to herself continually, just like you. . . .

She had written "thousands of pages of prose" by the time the same grandmother bought her a typewriter, Oates now fourteen. She immediately began "consciously training myself by writing novel after novel" -- some dozen of them, she estimates, all thrown away as soon as completed. There were some boys and some groups at Syracuse University, but mostly there was getting top grades, and the typewriter. Classmates estimate a novel a semester; sorority sisters gave her the room most able to muffle the all-night clickity-clack.

Joyce Carol Oates may have been the Emily Brontë of Lockport, New York -- shy, isolated, chaste, lost in her own fictive kingdom -- but there is more than Gothic imagination to all the violence and sexuality in her books. She recalls school as her introduction to an inbred "underworld" of "incredible cruelty, profanity, obscenity," the farm boys "giggling, gloating, rolling their eyes." She was molested behind the school outhouse, the experience even in 1993 still "so vivid in my memory, surrounded by such powerful inchoate emotions." In Foxfire: Confessions of a Girl Gang, Maddy Wirtz is a teenage girl growing up in a blue-collar upstate New York town in the 1950s. She "was the one perceived as having the power of words"; her chronicle of the gang's activities was to make it real, and be accomplished on the used typewriter she had saved hard to purchase at her uncle's store. The price is not only raised but changed at the last moment, in a back room; Maddy manages to escape, and report back to the sisterhood her disgust at what almost happened. Foxfire payback will initiate Maddy into violence, and begin an escalating series of revenges on a male and stupid world.

Things will spiral out of control, but Maddy, at least, moves on -- to become an astronomer, and acquire "the proper telescopic instrument for examining look-back time." She remains tattooed with the gang's name, and passion: "FOXFIRE BURNS AND BURNS! FOXFIRE IS NOW!"

Vårkänslor? Hitta någon att dela dem med! MSN Dejting

Re: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-16T22:36:00.000-07:00

And a happy 70th to Joyce Carol Oates!

Long-standing members of this list may remember the tribute story some of us wrote for her 60th. Was that really ten years ago?

Gary

----- Original Message -----

From: Carol Windley

To: jco@usfca.edu

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:26 AM

Subject: RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

Thank you Jane for this (Today in Literature). I'm kind of a silent member of the discussion group, I admit, but today I was thinking of Joyce Carol Oates on her birthday with immense gratitude for the pleasure her novels and short stories have brought me since I first read Bellefleur back in the 1980s. I've just finished reading Wild Nights and especially loved the story of Emily Dickinson's return to earth in the form of a valued (and valuable!) and strong-willed robot. Who else could write such an amazing story and make it seem possible, even inevitable, but Joyce Carol Oates? No one, I think!

Carol

From: jward1108@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:44:21 -0500

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=06/16/2008

June 16, 2008
Joyce Carol Oates: Reap & Sow
On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born. One of contemporary literature's most productive writers, Oates has more sections in her bibliography than most others have individual entries. At the rate she publishes these numbers may be unreliable, but they give the idea: 46 novels and novellas, 27 story collections, 8 poetry collections, 5 play collections, 3 opera librettos, 1 children's book, 9 essay and non-fiction collections, 16 anthologies edited or co-edited. Plus the creative writing job at Princeton, and the talks, newspaper articles, etc. Oh, and the 6 screenplays, sold but not yet produced (not to be confused with the 8 movies which have been made from her books but not adapted by her).

There is something more than "prolific" going on here -- some say Oates has the "midnight disease," hypergraphia -- but the writing bug bit early and hard. She began making picture stories at age three, with pretend writing underneath each frame. She remembers these to be "complicated narratives," and that many were done on the backs of her father's sheets of sandpaper. She remembers getting the gift of Alice in Wonderland from her grandmother:

If you could transpose yourself into a girl of 8, in 1946, in a farming community in upstate New York north of Buffalo, imagine the excitement of opening so beautiful a book to read a story in which a girl of about your age is the heroine; imagine the excitement of being taken along with Alice, who talks to herself continually, just like you. . . .

She had written "thousands of pages of prose" by the time the same grandmother bought her a typewriter, Oates now fourteen. She immediately began "consciously training myself by writing novel after novel" -- some dozen of them, she estimates, all thrown away as soon as completed. There were some boys and some groups at Syracuse University, but mostly there was getting top grades, and the typewriter. Classmates estimate a novel a semester; sorority sisters gave her the room most able to muffle the all-night clickity-clack.

Joyce Carol Oates may have been the Emily Brontë of Lockport, New York -- shy, isolated, chaste, lost in her own fictive kingdom -- but there is more than Gothic imagination to all the violence and sexuality in her books. She recalls school as her introduction to an inbred "underworld" of "incredible cruelty, profanity, obscenity," the farm boys "giggling, gloating, rolling their eyes." She was molested behind the school outhouse, the experience even in 1993 still "so vivid in my memory, surrounded by such powerful inchoate emotions." In Foxfire: Confessions of a Girl Gang, Maddy Wirtz is a teenage girl growing up in a blue-collar upstate New York town in the 1950s. She "was the one perceived as having the power of words"; her chronicle of the gang's activities was to make it real, and be accomplished on the used typewriter she had saved hard to purchase at her uncle's store. The price is not only raised but changed at the last moment, in a back room; Maddy manages to escape, and report back to the sisterhood her disgust at what almost happened. Foxfire payback will initiate Maddy into violence, and begin an escalating series of revenges on a male and stupid world.

Things will spiral out of control, but Maddy, at least, moves on -- to become an astronomer, and acquire "the proper telescopic instrument for examining look-back time." She remains tattooed with the gang's name, and passion: "FOXFIRE BURNS AND BURNS! FOXFIRE IS NOW!"

RE: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-16T21:26:00.000-07:00

Thank you Jane for this (Today in Literature). I'm kind of a silent member of the discussion group, I admit, but today I was thinking of Joyce Carol Oates on her birthday with immense gratitude for the pleasure her novels and short stories have brought me since I first read Bellefleur back in the 1980s. I've just finished reading Wild Nights and especially loved the story of Emily Dickinson's return to earth in the form of a valued (and valuable!) and strong-willed robot. Who else could write such an amazing story and make it seem possible, even inevitable, but Joyce Carol Oates? No one, I think!

Carol

From: jward1108@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:44:21 -0500

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=06/16/2008

June 16, 2008
Joyce Carol Oates: Reap & Sow
On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born. One of contemporary literature's most productive writers, Oates has more sections in her bibliography than most others have individual entries. At the rate she publishes these numbers may be unreliable, but they give the idea: 46 novels and novellas, 27 story collections, 8 poetry collections, 5 play collections, 3 opera librettos, 1 children's book, 9 essay and non-fiction collections, 16 anthologies edited or co-edited. Plus the creative writing job at Princeton, and the talks, newspaper articles, etc. Oh, and the 6 screenplays, sold but not yet produced (not to be confused with the 8 movies which have been made from her books but not adapted by her).

There is something more than "prolific" going on here -- some say Oates has the "midnight disease," hypergraphia -- but the writing bug bit early and hard. She began making picture stories at age three, with pretend writing underneath each frame. She remembers these to be "complicated narratives," and that many were done on the backs of her father's sheets of sandpaper. She remembers getting the gift of Alice in Wonderland from her grandmother:

If you could transpose yourself into a girl of 8, in 1946, in a farming community in upstate New York north of Buffalo, imagine the excitement of opening so beautiful a book to read a story in which a girl of about your age is the heroine; imagine the excitement of being taken along with Alice, who talks to herself continually, just like you. . . .

She had written "thousands of pages of prose" by the time the same grandmother bought her a typewriter, Oates now fourteen. She immediately began "consciously training myself by writing novel after novel" -- some dozen of them, she estimates, all thrown away as soon as completed. There were some boys and some groups at Syracuse University, but mostly there was getting top grades, and the typewriter. Classmates estimate a novel a semester; sorority sisters gave her the room most able to muffle the all-night clickity-clack.

Joyce Carol Oates may have been the Emily Brontë of Lockport, New York -- shy, isolated, chaste, lost in her own fictive kingdom -- but there is more than Gothic imagination to all the violence and sexuality in her books. She recalls school as her introduction to an inbred "underworld" of "incredible cruelty, profanity, obscenity," the farm boys "giggling, gloating, rolling their eyes." She was molested behind the school outhouse, the experience even in 1993 still "so vivid in my memory, surrounded by such powerful inchoate emotions." In Foxfire: Confessions of a Girl Gang, Maddy Wirtz is a teenage girl growing up in a blue-collar upstate New York town in the 1950s. She "was the one perceived as having the power of words"; her chronicle of the gang's activities was to make it real, and be accomplished on the used typewriter she had saved hard to purchase at her uncle's store. The price is not only raised but changed at the last moment, in a back room; Maddy manages to escape, and report back to the sisterhood her disgust at what almost happened. Foxfire payback will initiate Maddy into violence, and begin an escalating series of revenges on a male and stupid world.

Things will spiral out of control, but Maddy, at least, moves on -- to become an astronomer, and acquire "the proper telescopic instrument for examining look-back time." She remains tattooed with the gang's name, and passion: "FOXFIRE BURNS AND BURNS! FOXFIRE IS NOW!"

JCO: On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born.

2008-06-16T11:44:00.000-07:00

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=06/16/2008

June 16, 2008
Joyce Carol Oates: Reap & Sow
On this day in 1938 Joyce Carol Oates was born. One of contemporary literature's most productive writers, Oates has more sections in her bibliography than most others have individual entries. At the rate she publishes these numbers may be unreliable, but they give the idea: 46 novels and novellas, 27 story collections, 8 poetry collections, 5 play collections, 3 opera librettos, 1 children's book, 9 essay and non-fiction collections, 16 anthologies edited or co-edited. Plus the creative writing job at Princeton, and the talks, newspaper articles, etc. Oh, and the 6 screenplays, sold but not yet produced (not to be confused with the 8 movies which have been made from her books but not adapted by her).

There is something more than "prolific" going on here -- some say Oates has the "midnight disease," hypergraphia -- but the writing bug bit early and hard. She began making picture stories at age three, with pretend writing underneath each frame. She remembers these to be "complicated narratives," and that many were done on the backs of her father's sheets of sandpaper. She remembers getting the gift of Alice in Wonderland from her grandmother:

If you could transpose yourself into a girl of 8, in 1946, in a farming community in upstate New York north of Buffalo, imagine the excitement of opening so beautiful a book to read a story in which a girl of about your age is the heroine; imagine the excitement of being taken along with Alice, who talks to herself continually, just like you. . . .

She had written "thousands of pages of prose" by the time the same grandmother bought her a typewriter, Oates now fourteen. She immediately began "consciously training myself by writing novel after novel" -- some dozen of them, she estimates, all thrown away as soon as completed. There were some boys and some groups at Syracuse University, but mostly there was getting top grades, and the typewriter. Classmates estimate a novel a semester; sorority sisters gave her the room most able to muffle the all-night clickity-clack.

Joyce Carol Oates may have been the Emily Brontë of Lockport, New York -- shy, isolated, chaste, lost in her own fictive kingdom -- but there is more than Gothic imagination to all the violence and sexuality in her books. She recalls school as her introduction to an inbred "underworld" of "incredible cruelty, profanity, obscenity," the farm boys "giggling, gloating, rolling their eyes." She was molested behind the school outhouse, the experience even in 1993 still "so vivid in my memory, surrounded by such powerful inchoate emotions." In Foxfire: Confessions of a Girl Gang, Maddy Wirtz is a teenage girl growing up in a blue-collar upstate New York town in the 1950s. She "was the one perceived as having the power of words"; her chronicle of the gang's activities was to make it real, and be accomplished on the used typewriter she had saved hard to purchase at her uncle's store. The price is not only raised but changed at the last moment, in a back room; Maddy manages to escape, and report back to the sisterhood her disgust at what almost happened. Foxfire payback will initiate Maddy into violence, and begin an escalating series of revenges on a male and stupid world.

Things will spiral out of control, but Maddy, at least, moves on -- to become an astronomer, and acquire "the proper telescopic instrument for examining look-back time." She remains tattooed with the gang's name, and passion: "FOXFIRE BURNS AND BURNS! FOXFIRE IS NOW!"

RE: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-22T05:07:00.000-08:00

This is sad news indeed. Last night after reading your message it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel a loss for all readers of the Ontario Review, all readers of Joyce Carol Oates who know how supportive her husband has been through out her career, but mostly for Ms Oates who has lost her life mate. I can only imagine how deeply she must be grieving right now.

Jane

> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:44:32 -0800
> From: tinmachine@earthlink.net
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Raymond J. Smith
>
> For those who haven't yet heard, Raymond J. Smith--Joyce Carol Oates's husband, and editor of Ontario Review--has died. I've recast the front page of Celestial Timepiece (http://jco.usfca.edu) in his honor.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

Re: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-21T23:05:00.000-08:00

I never met him - I don't think he was there on the two occasions I met JCO. A sad day indeed.

Gary

----- Original Message -----

From: Eric Anderson

To: jco@usfca.edu

Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:17 AM

Subject: RE: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

The front page is a touching tribute, Randy. Thank you. I hadn't heard about this. How devastating! I had only met Raymond a couple of times, but he was very kind and engaging with a good sense of humor. Over his life he showed such a commitment to literature and new voices. It's really so sad to hear about this.

All the best,
Eric

> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:44:32 -0800
> From: tinmachine@earthlink.net
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Raymond J. Smith
>
> For those who haven't yet heard, Raymond J. Smith--Joyce Carol Oates's husband, and editor of Ontario Review--has died. I've recast the front page of Celestial Timepiece (http://jco.usfca.edu) in his honor.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

Re: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-21T19:36:00.000-08:00

Dear Randy,

I am so sorry to hear of Mr. Smith's death, but grateful that you posted it for us...

Christa

Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

JCO: RE: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-21T16:17:00.001-08:00

Thanks for posting that Randy.

Below is a link to the obituary from the local paper:

http://www.packetonline.com/articles/2008/02/18/the_princeton_packet/obi
tuaries/doc47b9fab6b0bd7281015464.txt

Thanks,
Karen Gaffney
kgaffney@raritanval.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jco@usfca.edu [mailto:owner-jco@usfca.edu] On Behalf Of
Randy Souther
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:45 PM
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

For those who haven't yet heard, Raymond J. Smith--Joyce Carol Oates's
husband, and editor of Ontario Review--has died. I've recast the front
page of Celestial Timepiece (http://jco.usfca.edu) in his honor.

Randy

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

RE: JCO: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-21T16:17:00.000-08:00

The front page is a touching tribute, Randy. Thank you. I hadn't heard about this. How devastating! I had only met Raymond a couple of times, but he was very kind and engaging with a good sense of humor. Over his life he showed such a commitment to literature and new voices. It's really so sad to hear about this.

All the best,
Eric

> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:44:32 -0800
> From: tinmachine@earthlink.net
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Raymond J. Smith
>
> For those who haven't yet heard, Raymond J. Smith--Joyce Carol Oates's husband, and editor of Ontario Review--has died. I've recast the front page of Celestial Timepiece (http://jco.usfca.edu) in his honor.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.

JCO: Raymond J. Smith

2008-02-21T15:44:00.000-08:00

For those who haven't yet heard, Raymond J. Smith--Joyce Carol Oates's husband, and editor of Ontario Review--has died. I've recast the front page of Celestial Timepiece (http://jco.usfca.edu) in his honor.

Randy

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

Re: JCO: Year's Best Fantasy & Horror

2008-02-21T15:36:00.000-08:00

Thanks for the notice, Gary.

That will make JCO's tenth entry into that great series.

Randy

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

JCO: Year's Best Fantasy & Horror

2008-02-21T12:01:00.000-08:00

JCO's story "Valentine, July Heat Wave", first published in Ellery Queen's
in March/April 2007, has been selected by Ellen Datlow for reprint in this
year's Year's Best Fantasy & Horror, to be published by St Martin's Press
later this year.

Gary

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

JCO: National Book Critics Circle Awards

2008-01-12T23:31:00.000-08:00

Joyce Carol Oates is a finalist in two categories for the National
Book Critics Circle Awards: The Gravedigger's Daughter for Fiction,
and The Journal of Joyce Carol Oates for Autobiography!

Winners will be announced March 6.

Randy
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

Re: JCO: them

2007-12-09T10:03:00.000-08:00

Hi, Jane & Richard. I think Naturalism is one of many tools in a writer's workshop. O and critic Alfred Kazin had a disagreement partly over the term when K visited O in Windsor, ONT, in 1971, to write a profile on "Oates" for Harpers Magazine. (See Greg Johnson's Invisible Writer, pages 194-5).

Richard, did you ever receive my posting last month when I gave you my take on that twice-repeated scene in them when Maureen goes to the emergency room following a beating from her stepfather? You wondered whether it was beyond naturalism. And how's the paper going?

Thanks,

Cyrano

In a message dated 12/9/2007 10:17:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jward1108@hotmail.com writes:

Hi Richard,
I hesitated to respond to this, because I haven't thought about such terms in a long while. However, it does seem to me that them is naturalistic. In her Journal, January 12, 1975, she refers to her writing "in the past" as being naturalistic. 'I wanted the tone of naturalism, believing that the improbable, introduced into such a world, would itself be believable and hence not improbable.[...] This method is fine, I love the feel of naturalism, the clarity of details . . . infatuation with the physical, sensuous world . . .' She goes on to say, 'For this I had to accept being classified as a "naturalistic" writer in the tradition of Dreiser (who I have, alas, never read . . . and must someday read, before it is too late; I must read Sister Carrie and An American Tragedy) though it was only the material of "naturalism" that interested me, not the treatment of it. "Gritty realism" and that sort of thing.' She continues at length about the challenge of wedding 'the naturalistic and the symbolic, the realistic and the abstract, the utterly convincing story and the parable . . . that is , to bring together the psychological and the mythic in one character at all moments . . . and to wed time and eternity in a seamless whole.'
Well, you can look at that yourself and see if you think it is relevant to your paper. She doesn't mention them but is referring to her writing in general. Anyway, as I was reading the journal yesterday, I came across that section and thought about your question. It seems that she may be answering it for you, to some degree.
Good luck with the paper!
Jane

From: rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
Subject: JCO: them
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:54:59 -0500

Hello all:

A few weeks back, I sought help from you knowledgeable people with regard to a graduate school research paper I am in the process of completing. I am seeking help again. Part of the paper deals with the controversy over whether or not them is a work of naturalism. In the texts of literary criticism I have come across, all of the scholars say them has naturalistic elements--or even pseudo-naturalistic elements--but they add the novel is not a work of naturalism. That much is very clear to me. But at the same time, the critics do not come out and say clearly what the novel is specifically--a kind of realism, an experimental work, something else? My inclination is to say the novel is work of realism, since realism is generally the domain in which JCO works. Some of the literary critics I am dealing with include some highly regarded big shots when it comes to scholarship on JCO: Brenda Daly, Gavin Cologne-Brooks, Joanne Creighton, Greg Johnson. And I think there is an assumption among them and other critics that folks either know or consider them to be more realistic than anything else.

Basically, if anyone knows anything, if anybody can direct to a clarifying book or an article, let me know.

Richard

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RE: JCO: them

2007-12-09T07:16:00.000-08:00

Hi Richard,
I hesitated to respond to this, because I haven't thought about such terms in a long while. However, it does seem to me that them is naturalistic. In her Journal, January 12, 1975, she refers to her writing "in the past" as being naturalistic. 'I wanted the tone of naturalism, believing that the improbable, introduced into such a world, would itself be believable and hence not improbable.[...] This method is fine, I love the feel of naturalism, the clarity of details . . . infatuation with the physical, sensuous world . . .' She goes on to say, 'For this I had to accept being classified as a "naturalistic" writer in the tradition of Dreiser (who I have, alas, never read . . . and must someday read, before it is too late; I must read Sister Carrie and An American Tragedy) though it was only the material of "naturalism" that interested me, not the treatment of it. "Gritty realism" and that sort of thing.' She continues at length about the challenge of wedding 'the naturalistic and the symbolic, the realistic and the abstract, the utterly convincing story and the parable . . . that is , to bring together the psychological and the mythic in one character at all moments . . . and to wed time and eternity in a seamless whole.'
Well, you can look at that yourself and see if you think it is relevant to your paper. She doesn't mention them but is referring to her writing in general. Anyway, as I was reading the journal yesterday, I came across that section and thought about your question. It seems that she may be answering it for you, to some degree.
Good luck with the paper!
Jane

From: rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
Subject: JCO: them
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:54:59 -0500

Hello all:

A few weeks back, I sought help from you knowledgeable people with regard to a graduate school research paper I am in the process of completing. I am seeking help again. Part of the paper deals with the controversy over whether or not them is a work of naturalism. In the texts of literary criticism I have come across, all of the scholars say them has naturalistic elements--or even pseudo-naturalistic elements--but they add the novel is not a work of naturalism. That much is very clear to me. But at the same time, the critics do not come out and say clearly what the novel is specifically--a kind of realism, an experimental work, something else? My inclination is to say the novel is work of realism, since realism is generally the domain in which JCO works. Some of the literary critics I am dealing with include some highly regarded big shots when it comes to scholarship on JCO: Brenda Daly, Gavin Cologne-Brooks, Joanne Creighton, Greg Johnson. And I think there is an assumption among them and other critics that folks either know or consider them to be more realistic than anything else.

Basically, if anyone knows anything, if anybody can direct to a clarifying book or an article, let me know.

Richard

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JCO: them

2007-12-02T15:54:00.000-08:00

Hello all:

A few weeks back, I sought help from you knowledgeable people with regard to a graduate school research paper I am in the process of completing. I am seeking help again. Part of the paper deals with the controversy over whether or not them is a work of naturalism. In the texts of literary criticism I have come across, all of the scholars say them has naturalistic elements--or even pseudo-naturalistic elements--but they add the novel is not a work of naturalism. That much is very clear to me. But at the same time, the critics do not come out and say clearly what the novel is specifically--a kind of realism, an experimental work, something else? My inclination is to say the novel is work of realism, since realism is generally the domain in which JCO works. Some of the literary critics I am dealing with include some highly regarded big shots when it comes to scholarship on JCO: Brenda Daly, Gavin Cologne-Brooks, Joanne Creighton, Greg Johnson. And I think there is an assumption among them and other critics that folks either know or consider them to be more realistic than anything else.

Basically, if anyone knows anything, if anybody can direct to a clarifying book or an article, let me know.

Richard

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Re: JCO: Journals of JCO

2007-11-30T08:31:00.000-08:00

Hi, Jane. That's great news. I just started re-reading the Journal this morning (my own copy this time, not the public library copy I read earlier.) I'm also rereading a mid-1970s story collection of hers "All the Good People I Left Behind." Want to track down the early stories and articles noted in the opening Journal chapters. What a treasure hunt lies ahead. Look forward to discussing them with you.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 11/29/2007 7:52:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jward1108@hotmail.com writes:

Hi Cyrano,

I've just begun reading the Journals. They are a fascinating peek into JCO's mind as she was writing some of my favorite works. I haven't read enough to comment more than that, but I'm looking forward to a discussion as I read more.

Jane

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RE: JCO: Journals of JCO

2007-11-29T04:51:00.000-08:00

Hi Cyrano,

I've just begun reading the Journals. They are a fascinating peek into JCO's mind as she was writing some of my favorite works. I haven't read enough to comment more than that, but I'm looking forward to a discussion as I read more.

Jane

From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:49:57 -0500
Subject: Re: JCO: Journals of JCO
To: jward1108@hotmail.com; gjcouzens@btinternet.com; Petrapinto@aol.com; erickarl78@hotmail.com; faliol@yahoo.com; bigbowtai@hotmail.com; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com; rejment@broadband.net; NotEnoughKittens@aol.com; Cyranomish@aol.com

Hi, Eric & Jane. The Journals were fun to read. Who all's reading them now? I'd love to get a little discussion going. Meanwhile, I've tracking down some of JCO's 1970s works, now that I know something about their backgrounds. I'm rereading "All the Good People I Left Behind" with great nostalgia for the Midwest in the turbulent 70s. If anybody knows where I can buy a copy, please let me know.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 11/28/2007 11:03:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jward1108@hotmail.com writes:

The video of Ms Oates at the National Book Festival is just great. Her sense of humor is enjoyable. She seemed to be enjoying herself and having fun with the audience.

Jane

From: erickarl78@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celestial Timepiece site
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:10:55 -0500

Hello

First, I'd like to thank Randy for posting the link to the wonderful video At the National Book Festival on the site. I just watched it and it was a pleasure to see JCO in such a light-hearted, talkative mood when she was on stage discussing The Gravedigger's Daughter and fielding questions about her other work. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at it if you haven't already.

I've been reading through the recently published Journals over the past couple of weeks. What a mesmerizing, insightful read! Surely when considering the inevitable question of "How do you write so much?" this collection of journal extracts from only ten years gives an honest and complex answer. At times, JCO even asks herself how she produces so much and seems in awe of all the publications she sees appearing. It reveals how powerfully committed and focused she is, driven by rather existential questions of existence and the meaning of art.

I've been doing some travelling recently, long train rides with screaming children sat across from me. I've also suffered from a bad cold which has caused fits of insomina, long sleepless muddy-headed nights. Yet every time I've opened the Journals I become completely detached from all these insignificant distractions and am able to fully immerse myself in the powerful philosophical musings of JCO's daily life. What a treasure! Surely an invaluable resource for any writer or bookworm. And how eagerly I hope the next decade of the journals appears in another volume.

Eric

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Re: JCO: Journals of JCO

2007-11-28T09:01:00.000-08:00

In a message dated 11/28/2007 11:49:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Cyranomish writes:

Hi, Eric & Jane. The Journals were fun to read. Who all's reading them now? I'd love to get a little discussion going. Meanwhile, I've tracking down some of JCO's 1970s works, now that I know something about their backgrounds. I'm rereading "All the Good People I Left Behind" with great nostalgia for the Midwest in the turbulent 70s. If anybody knows where I can buy a copy, please let me know.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 11/28/2007 11:03:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jward1108@hotmail.com writes:

The video of Ms Oates at the National Book Festival is just great. Her sense of humor is enjoyable. She seemed to be enjoying herself and having fun with the audience.

Jane

From: erickarl78@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celestial Timepiece site
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:10:55 -0500

Hello

First, I'd like to thank Randy for posting the link to the wonderful video At the National Book Festival on the site. I just watched it and it was a pleasure to see JCO in such a light-hearted, talkative mood when she was on stage discussing The Gravedigger's Daughter and fielding questions about her other work. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at it if you haven't already.

I've been reading through the recently published Journals over the past couple of weeks. What a mesmerizing, insightful read! Surely when considering the inevitable question of "How do you write so much?" this collection of journal extracts from only ten years gives an honest and complex answer. At times, JCO even asks herself how she produces so much and seems in awe of all the publications she sees appearing. It reveals how powerfully committed and focused she is, driven by rather existential questions of existence and the meaning of art.

I've been doing some travelling recently, long train rides with screaming children sat across from me. I've also suffered from a bad cold which has caused fits of insomina, long sleepless muddy-headed nights. Yet every time I've opened the Journals I become completely detached from all these insignificant distractions and am able to fully immerse myself in the powerful philosophical musings of JCO's daily life. What a treasure! Surely an invaluable resource for any writer or bookworm. And how eagerly I hope the next decade of the journals appears in another volume.

Eric

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RE: JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celestial Timepiece site

2007-11-28T08:02:00.000-08:00

The video of Ms Oates at the National Book Festival is just great. Her sense of humor is enjoyable. She seemed to be enjoying herself and having fun with the audience.

Jane

From: erickarl78@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celestial Timepiece site
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:10:55 -0500

Hello

First, I'd like to thank Randy for posting the link to the wonderful video At the National Book Festival on the site. I just watched it and it was a pleasure to see JCO in such a light-hearted, talkative mood when she was on stage discussing The Gravedigger's Daughter and fielding questions about her other work. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at it if you haven't already.

I've been reading through the recently published Journals over the past couple of weeks. What a mesmerizing, insightful read! Surely when considering the inevitable question of "How do you write so much?" this collection of journal extracts from only ten years gives an honest and complex answer. At times, JCO even asks herself how she produces so much and seems in awe of all the publications she sees appearing. It reveals how powerfully committed and focused she is, driven by rather existential questions of existence and the meaning of art.

I've been doing some travelling recently, long train rides with screaming children sat across from me. I've also suffered from a bad cold which has caused fits of insomina, long sleepless muddy-headed nights. Yet every time I've opened the Journals I become completely detached from all these insignificant distractions and am able to fully immerse myself in the powerful philosophical musings of JCO's daily life. What a treasure! Surely an invaluable resource for any writer or bookworm. And how eagerly I hope the next decade of the journals appears in another volume.

Eric

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Re: JCO:& r.i.p.MAILER

2007-11-18T10:22:00.000-08:00

In a message dated 11/16/2007 12:41:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Cyranomish writes:

Hi, Eric. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Since posting last, I've reread some of the other stories in the collection THE SEDUCTION with great enjoyment. "Getting & Spending" (title from the Wordsworth poem "The world is too much with us/Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers/Little we see in nature that is ours.") JCO locates her "Mailer" story -- if that is indeed what it is -- in Maine, not Provincetown on Cape Cod, where Mailer spent his latter years happily married to wife #6 (#7?) Similarly, JCO relocated Ted Kennedy's Chappaquiddick waterloo from Martha's Vineyard to coastal Maine in BLACK WATER.

    Anyways...in THE SEDUCTION, I rediscovered the story "The Imposters," which is quite vividly set in 1970s Provincetown. Enjoyed the descriptions of that overworked summer tourist mecca -- P'town's littered landscapes and joyously kitsch artwork all up & down Commercial St. The squalid bohemian lifestyle that JCO has portrayed so vividly elsewhere. You can roll your eyes at P'town and still love it every summer. In "Imposters," of course, it's the backdrop to a grim story whose hero ends "slipping backward into sleep, as if into dark water."

    I liked your take on Getting & Spending. I tend to the view that the shy (Alice-in-Wonderlandish) heroine did not have a sexual fling with Roger Craft; he did, however, shake her up emotionally.  Her great failure in their relationship was to abstain, not from sex, but from reporting RC's abuse of his little son, with the excuse that it was "none of her business," that it would stir up too much "fuss" with RC, who would be furious with her for snooping into his domestic business.  Later, when they meet on a cruiseship, RC and the narrator's husband take an immediate dislike to each other. RC finds the husband "priggish" -- and the narrator eventually divorces from that husband and is last seem tagging after RC in search of a good interview for the same fashion magazine that she had started out with as a journalist many years previously. It makes sense the RC would remember their first acquaintance as a sexual one -- because the narrator turns out to be as uneasily compliant as his actual wives were. So, I don't think they had sex, but he did exert a great emotional control over her, which endured for many years.

    Yes, you're right: they have opposite philosophies. I hadn't thought of that. And at the same time RC is admirably ambitious & tenacious, -- as is JCO herself, who -- I think in that old NEWSWEEK profile I mentioned below -- smiles at her own "laughably Balzacian ambition to put the whole world into a book."  In Getting & Spending, the narrator and RC are both "triumphant survivors" each on his/her own terms, but I believe readers are also being asked to reflect on what the triumph has cost them.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 11/14/2007 11:37:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, erickarl78@hotmail.com writes:

Hi Cyrano

Thanks for pointing out "Getting and Spending." I read the story years ago, but hadn't connected that "Roger Craft" might be inspired by Mailer. I can see it very clearly in reading it now. It's an interesting piece, sort of a hesitant portrait of a vigorous, intelligent, violent man. The narrator is so inward and quiet, so hesitant to admit much about her own life that it's difficult to tell whether the two really did have an affair in the house in Maine as Roger later claimed. He comes across very vividly as someone so brutish and selfish, but admirable in a way for his tenacity. Really he's the complete opposite of the narrator in that he tries to find the answers to the philosophical questions of life by bullying his way through it. Whereas the narrator tends, at least in the beginning, to extreme introspection and withdraws herself from any combative situation. "Roger Craft" Surely one best observed from afar.

Eric

From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:25:29 -0500
Subject: Re: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER
To: erickarl78@hotmail.com

In a message dated 11/12/2007 8:21:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Cyranomish writes:

Hello, all. I'm emailing you separately because my server does not connect reliably with Tone Clusters, and I haven't yet figured out how to fix it.

     Provincetown just isn't going to be the same without the looming, offstage presence of Norman Mailer, whose WWII novel The Naked & the Dead should be read by any serious lit-lover. JCO cited him with admiration in her early-1970s NEWSWEEK profile. A few years later, she gently but very firmly reproached him for his unsympathetic attitude toward women's reproductive freedom. (Randy can probably direct you to that article; I can't at the moment recall the magazine.)

     For a very thrilling JCO short story "about" (I think) the impact of NM on her art, please peruse the short story GETTING & SPENDING, collected in the 1975 book THE SEDUCTION & OTHER STORIES. I'd love to hear your reactions.

     Please forward this note on to other Tone Cluster folk I have overlooked in my haste. Does anyone have Greg Johnson's email address?

Best,

Cyrano

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Re: JCO: RE: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER

2007-11-14T10:31:00.000-08:00

Thank you. I'll check it out.

Sue

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Re: JCO: RE: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER

2007-11-14T08:49:00.000-08:00

I think the story might be "Extenuating Circumstances"? In HAUNTED: Tales of the Grotesque? --Angie

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Re: JCO: RE: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER

2007-11-14T08:41:00.000-08:00

Hello JCO fans,

I am looking for a JCO short story about a mother getting ready to bathe a baby, heating the water, and....... If you've read it, you will remember the rest. I thought it was included in an collection of short stories written by women.

Can anyone help me locate this piece?

Thank you,

Sue Sandeen

Florida

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JCO: RE: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER

2007-11-14T08:37:00.000-08:00

Hi Cyrano

Thanks for pointing out "Getting and Spending." I read the story years ago, but hadn't connected that "Roger Craft" might be inspired by Mailer. I can see it very clearly in reading it now. It's an interesting piece, sort of a hesitant portrait of a vigorous, intelligent, violent man. The narrator is so inward and quiet, so hesitant to admit much about her own life that it's difficult to tell whether the two really did have an affair in the house in Maine as Roger later claimed. He comes across very vividly as someone so brutish and selfish, but admirable in a way for his tenacity. Really he's the complete opposite of the narrator in that he tries to find the answers to the philosophical questions of life by bullying his way through it. Whereas the narrator tends, at least in the beginning, to extreme introspection and withdraws herself from any combative situation. "Roger Craft" Surely one best observed from afar.

Eric

From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:25:29 -0500
Subject: Re: JCO & r.i.p.MAILER
To: erickarl78@hotmail.com

In a message dated 11/12/2007 8:21:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Cyranomish writes:

Hello, all. I'm emailing you separately because my server does not connect reliably with Tone Clusters, and I haven't yet figured out how to fix it.

     Provincetown just isn't going to be the same without the looming, offstage presence of Norman Mailer, whose WWII novel The Naked & the Dead should be read by any serious lit-lover. JCO cited him with admiration in her early-1970s NEWSWEEK profile. A few years later, she gently but very firmly reproached him for his unsympathetic attitude toward women's reproductive freedom. (Randy can probably direct you to that article; I can't at the moment recall the magazine.)

     For a very thrilling JCO short story "about" (I think) the impact of NM on her art, please peruse the short story GETTING & SPENDING, collected in the 1975 book THE SEDUCTION & OTHER STORIES. I'd love to hear your reactions.

     Please forward this note on to other Tone Cluster folk I have overlooked in my haste. Does anyone have Greg Johnson's email address?

Best,

Cyrano

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RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-11-08T06:16:00.000-08:00

Yes.

> Subject: RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project
> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 19:51:43 -0600
> From: william-heathershaw@uiowa.edu
> To: jco@usfca.edu; jco@usfca.edu
>
> Can I please me removed from this listserve?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ---
> William Heathershaw
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jco@usfca.edu on behalf of richard peacock
> Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:56 PM
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry for the late reply.
> Richard
>
> From: rejment@bredband.net
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:16:06 +0200
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard,
> Black Girl White Girl is also pertinent here. Although it's a book about
> girls, MInette's farther is an important black character. As opposed to Genna's
> white father. I suppose you would need to use some comparison if you want to
> show how JCO constructs black masculinity. Is it any different (and if so how)
> from white masculinity? What are your thoughts on the subject?
> Cheers,
> Marie (Sweden)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Cyranomish@aol.com
> To: jco@usfca.edu ; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:49
> PM
> Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research
> Project
>
>
>
> Hi, Richard. Don't forget these early JCO short stories:
> "Fine White Mist of Winter" in By the North Gate
> (1963)
> "The Molesters" in the novel Expensive People (1968)
> "Up From Slavery," in The Hungry Ghosts (1974) this story
> originally published in Playboy Magazine
> "Concerning the Case of Bobby T" and "Assault" in The
> Goddess & Other Women (1974)
> "Golden Gloves" in Raven's Wing (1986)
> "An American Adventure" in The Seduction & Other Stories
> (1975)
> also the play Cry Me A River (198?)
>
> Linking these stories to the novels would be a far more interesting and
> valuable endeavor than rehashing other readers' criticisms.
> The fiction itself is of vastly more importance than any critique
> material. JCO's short stories are vital to any appreciation of her
> novels.
> I'll be interested in your take
> on some of these early JCO works. Please copy me a message
> here at cyranomish@aol.com as
> well as via Tone Clusters. There seems to be some difficulties with
> my communications with TC -- technical no doubt.
> Best,
> Cyrano
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/14/2007 1:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> rlpeacock6@hotmail.com writes:
> I am
> a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black
> (African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol
> Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books
> specifically: I'll Take You There,
> I Lock the Door upon Myself and
> Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My
> Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this
> subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to
> know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or
> like-minded study.
>
> Thank
> you.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new at AOL.com
> and Make AOL Your
> Homepage.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power.
> http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last. Get it now!

RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-11-07T17:51:00.000-08:00

Can I please me removed from this listserve?

Thanks.

---
William Heathershaw

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jco@usfca.edu on behalf of richard peacock
Sent: Wed 11/7/2007 6:56 PM
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project

Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry for the late reply.
Richard

From: rejment@bredband.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:16:06 +0200

Richard,
Black Girl White Girl is also pertinent here. Although it's a book about
girls, MInette's farther is an important black character. As opposed to Genna's
white father. I suppose you would need to use some comparison if you want to
show how JCO constructs black masculinity. Is it any different (and if so how)
from white masculinity? What are your thoughts on the subject?
Cheers,
Marie (Sweden)

----- Original Message -----
From:
Cyranomish@aol.com
To: jco@usfca.edu ; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:49
PM
Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research
Project

Hi, Richard. Don't forget these early JCO short stories:
"Fine White Mist of Winter" in By the North Gate
(1963)
"The Molesters" in the novel Expensive People (1968)
"Up From Slavery," in The Hungry Ghosts (1974) this story
originally published in Playboy Magazine
"Concerning the Case of Bobby T" and "Assault" in The
Goddess & Other Women (1974)
"Golden Gloves" in Raven's Wing (1986)
"An American Adventure" in The Seduction & Other Stories
(1975)
also the play Cry Me A River (198?)

Linking these stories to the novels would be a far more interesting and
valuable endeavor than rehashing other readers' criticisms.
The fiction itself is of vastly more importance than any critique
material. JCO's short stories are vital to any appreciation of her
novels.
I'll be interested in your take
on some of these early JCO works. Please copy me a message
here at cyranomish@aol.com as
well as via Tone Clusters. There seems to be some difficulties with
my communications with TC -- technical no doubt.
Best,
Cyrano

In a message dated 10/14/2007 1:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rlpeacock6@hotmail.com writes:
I am
a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black
(African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol
Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books
specifically: I'll Take You There,
I Lock the Door upon Myself and
Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My
Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this
subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to
know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or
like-minded study.

Thank
you.

Richard

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and Make AOL Your
Homepage.

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
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RE: JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-11-07T16:56:00.000-08:00

Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry for the late reply.
Richard

From: rejment@bredband.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:16:06 +0200

Richard,

Black Girl White Girl is also pertinent here. Although it's a book about girls, MInette's farther is an important black character. As opposed to Genna's white father. I suppose you would need to use some comparison if you want to show how JCO constructs black masculinity. Is it any different (and if so how) from white masculinity? What are your thoughts on the subject?

Cheers,

Marie (Sweden)

----- Original Message -----

From: Cyranomish@aol.com

To: jco@usfca.edu ; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com

Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:49 PM

Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project

Hi, Richard. Don't forget these early JCO short stories:

   "Fine White Mist of Winter" in By the North Gate (1963)

   "The Molesters" in the novel Expensive People (1968)

   "Up From Slavery," in The Hungry Ghosts (1974) this story originally published in Playboy Magazine

   "Concerning the Case of Bobby T" and "Assault" in The Goddess & Other Women (1974)

   "Golden Gloves" in Raven's Wing (1986)

   "An American Adventure" in The Seduction & Other Stories (1975)

   also the play Cry Me A River (198?)

Linking these stories to the novels would be a far more interesting and valuable endeavor than rehashing other readers' criticisms. The fiction itself is of vastly more importance than any critique material. JCO's short stories are vital to any appreciation of her novels.

     I'll be interested in your take on some of these early JCO works. Please copy me a message here at cyranomish@aol.com as well as via Tone Clusters.  There seems to be some difficulties with my communications with TC -- technical no doubt.

Best,

Cyrano





In a message dated 10/14/2007 1:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rlpeacock6@hotmail.com writes:

I am a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black (African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books specifically: I'll Take You There, I Lock the Door upon Myself and Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or like-minded study.

Thank you.

Richard

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Re: JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celesti...

2007-11-06T18:38:00.000-08:00

Hi, Eric. I read the Journals last week. I enjoyed the descriptions of flora and fauna around JCO's house. The Princeton area very picturesque. The photos in the journal were good; I particularly liked the one with JCO, E.L. Doctorow and Elaine Showalter at a dinner party. The Journals really show the rhythm of dreaming and then writing a long piece of fiction -- also the melancholy of finishing a work and wondering what to do next. After I read the Journals, I found I had put together a long list of uncollected JCO fiction that I want to track down this winter. Chopin, anybody?

Cyrano

In a message dated 11/6/2007 12:11:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, erickarl78@hotmail.com writes:

I've been reading through the recently published Journals over the past couple of weeks. What a mesmerizing, insightful read! Surely when considering the inevitable question of "How do you write so much?" this collection of journal extracts from only ten years gives an honest and complex answer. At times, JCO even asks herself how she produces so much and seems in awe of all the publications she sees appearing. It reveals how powerfully committed and focused she is, driven by rather existential questions of existence and the meaning of art.

I've been doing some travelling recently, long train rides with screaming children sat across from me. I've also suffered from a bad cold which has caused fits of insomina, long sleepless muddy-headed nights. Yet every time I've opened the Journals I become completely detached from all these insignificant distractions and am able to fully immerse myself in the powerful philosophical musings of JCO's daily life. What a treasure! Surely an invaluable resource for any writer or bookworm. And how eagerly I hope the next decade of the journals appears in another volume.

Eric

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JCO: Journals of JCO and 'At the National Book Festival Video' on Celestial Timepiece site

2007-11-06T09:10:00.000-08:00

Hello

First, I'd like to thank Randy for posting the link to the wonderful video At the National Book Festival on the site. I just watched it and it was a pleasure to see JCO in such a light-hearted, talkative mood when she was on stage discussing The Gravedigger's Daughter and fielding questions about her other work. I'd encourage everyone to take a look at it if you haven't already.

I've been reading through the recently published Journals over the past couple of weeks. What a mesmerizing, insightful read! Surely when considering the inevitable question of "How do you write so much?" this collection of journal extracts from only ten years gives an honest and complex answer. At times, JCO even asks herself how she produces so much and seems in awe of all the publications she sees appearing. It reveals how powerfully committed and focused she is, driven by rather existential questions of existence and the meaning of art.

I've been doing some travelling recently, long train rides with screaming children sat across from me. I've also suffered from a bad cold which has caused fits of insomina, long sleepless muddy-headed nights. Yet every time I've opened the Journals I become completely detached from all these insignificant distractions and am able to fully immerse myself in the powerful philosophical musings of JCO's daily life. What a treasure! Surely an invaluable resource for any writer or bookworm. And how eagerly I hope the next decade of the journals appears in another volume.

Eric

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Re: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-11-02T10:52:00.000-07:00

Click on the "Listen to the Latest Programme" link (to the left of Michael Berkeley's photograph).

I think it's only there until Sunday when next week's programme will replace it. I don't know if it's possible to download the programme as a MP3 or something. I have recorded the programme via the digibox on my TV set, but the only way I know how to copy that would be onto PAL videotape...

Gary

----- Original Message -----

From: Jane Ward

To: jco@usfca.edu

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 1:33 PM

Subject: RE: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

Hi Gary,

I followed the link on that page, but it links to a page about the show. I don't see a way to play the show. Perhaps it is not posted yet? Or perhaps I just can't find the link to play the episode . . .

Jane

> From: gjcouzens@btinternet.com
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:41:19 +0000
>
> The programme below can still be listened to at the BBC Radio site -
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/privatepassions/
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Couzens" <gjcouzens@btinternet.com>
> To: <jco@usfca.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:18 AM
> Subject: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
>
>
> > Sorry for the short notice, but I've just spotted this!
> >
> > Sunday 28 October
> > BBC RADIO 3 12:00
> > "Private Passions"
> > Michael Berkeley talks to American writer Joyce Carol Oates, one of the
> > most prolific of contemporary novelists and a professor at Princeton
> > University. Her latest novel, The Gravedigger's Daughter, deals with some
> > of her favourite themes - race, immigration, family and social mobility.
> > Two pieces of music mentioned in the book - Beethoven's Appassionata
> > soata, and a Fauré cello sonata - are among her choices. [from Radio
> > Times]
> >
> > Radio 3 can be listened to over the Internet - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3. After
> > the broadcast, hopefully the programme will be available as "listen again"
> > streams or as a podcast for a short period - I think up to 7 days.
> >
> > N.B. for those outside the UK - British clocks went back last night, so
> > local time is now the same as GMT.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

RE: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-11-02T09:59:00.000-07:00

I've been able to open it, but what I had to do was open the BBC Radio Player to listen to Radio 3 live. This opens in a new window. In the that window on the right hand side there is a column that says "Radio 3 Show by Type". If you click on "Classical" and then select "Private Passions" the most recent episode with Joyce Carol Oates should start up.

Hope this helps.
Eric

From: jward1108@hotmail.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: RE: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:33:00 -0500

Hi Gary,

I followed the link on that page, but it links to a page about the show. I don't see a way to play the show. Perhaps it is not posted yet? Or perhaps I just can't find the link to play the episode . . .

Jane

> From: gjcouzens@btinternet.com
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:41:19 +0000
>
> The programme below can still be listened to at the BBC Radio site -
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/privatepassions/
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Couzens" <gjcouzens@btinternet.com>
> To: <jco@usfca.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:18 AM
> Subject: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
>
>
> > Sorry for the short notice, but I've just spotted this!
> >
> > Sunday 28 October
> > BBC RADIO 3 12:00
> > "Private Passions"
> > Michael Berkeley talks to American writer Joyce Carol Oates, one of the
> > most prolific of contemporary novelists and a professor at Princeton
> > University. Her latest novel, The Gravedigger's Daughter, deals with some
> > of her favourite themes - race, immigration, family and social mobility.
> > Two pieces of music mentioned in the book - Beethoven's Appassionata
> > soata, and a Fauré cello sonata - are among her choices. [from Radio
> > Times]
> >
> > Radio 3 can be listened to over the Internet - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3. After
> > the broadcast, hopefully the programme will be available as "listen again"
> > streams or as a podcast for a short period - I think up to 7 days.
> >
> > N.B. for those outside the UK - British clocks went back last night, so
> > local time is now the same as GMT.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today!

Re: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-11-02T08:18:00.000-07:00

I'm so glad you couldn't find it either...thought I was the only one!

Petra

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RE: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-11-02T06:33:00.000-07:00

Hi Gary,

I followed the link on that page, but it links to a page about the show. I don't see a way to play the show. Perhaps it is not posted yet? Or perhaps I just can't find the link to play the episode . . .

Jane

> From: gjcouzens@btinternet.com
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:41:19 +0000
>
> The programme below can still be listened to at the BBC Radio site -
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/privatepassions/
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Couzens" <gjcouzens@btinternet.com>
> To: <jco@usfca.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:18 AM
> Subject: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)
>
>
> > Sorry for the short notice, but I've just spotted this!
> >
> > Sunday 28 October
> > BBC RADIO 3 12:00
> > "Private Passions"
> > Michael Berkeley talks to American writer Joyce Carol Oates, one of the
> > most prolific of contemporary novelists and a professor at Princeton
> > University. Her latest novel, The Gravedigger's Daughter, deals with some
> > of her favourite themes - race, immigration, family and social mobility.
> > Two pieces of music mentioned in the book - Beethoven's Appassionata
> > soata, and a Fauré cello sonata - are among her choices. [from Radio
> > Times]
> >
> > Radio 3 can be listened to over the Internet - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3. After
> > the broadcast, hopefully the programme will be available as "listen again"
> > streams or as a podcast for a short period - I think up to 7 days.
> >
> > N.B. for those outside the UK - British clocks went back last night, so
> > local time is now the same as GMT.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

JCO: Fw: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-11-01T13:41:00.000-07:00

The programme below can still be listened to at the BBC Radio site -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/privatepassions/

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Couzens" <gjcouzens@btinternet.com>
To: <jco@usfca.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

> Sorry for the short notice, but I've just spotted this!
>
> Sunday 28 October
> BBC RADIO 3 12:00
> "Private Passions"
> Michael Berkeley talks to American writer Joyce Carol Oates, one of the
> most prolific of contemporary novelists and a professor at Princeton
> University. Her latest novel, The Gravedigger's Daughter, deals with some
> of her favourite themes - race, immigration, family and social mobility.
> Two pieces of music mentioned in the book - Beethoven's Appassionata
> soata, and a Fauré cello sonata - are among her choices. [from Radio
> Times]
>
> Radio 3 can be listened to over the Internet - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3. After
> the broadcast, hopefully the programme will be available as "listen again"
> streams or as a podcast for a short period - I think up to 7 days.
>
> N.B. for those outside the UK - British clocks went back last night, so
> local time is now the same as GMT.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

JCO: Re: bigbowtai's them querry_ PLOT DESCRIPTIONS HERE, so watch out, nonreaders.

2007-10-28T09:13:00.000-07:00

Hi, Tai. What a treat to sit down to a discussion of text! And thanks for reminding me that I own the Modern Edition them with its intriguing photo of an Audrey-Hepburnesque JCO on the cover. I always refer to my old 1970 paperback them -- with my ancient marginal notations. Forgot I had the 2000 ed. too.

Anyways...the scene on page 228 seems to me simply Maureen's point of view in the hours immediately following her attack (and cash robbery) by Furlong. She's dazed and battered but sensible of Loretta's getting her on the bus to an emergency room for basic repairs from the beating, the beating which ends on page 226. No clairvoyance or out-of-body stuff that I see there: simply M slowly regaining consciousness after a traumatic physical ordeal.

After the hospital -- to the reprehensible Loretta's credit, she does not leave M in the hospital to the untender mercies of the charity wards -- M. is "cared" for at "home" by her mother and so retreats into an overweight, clueless infant state while recovering from the beating...and incidentally from her short, somewhat lucrative career as a prostitute. (Ironically, Maureen succeeded as a streetwalker for several months, where Loretta's attempt to hook a john -- 10 or 12 years earlier -- was comically foiled.) The repetition of the bus ride on page 332 reminds us how M. was transformed into Loretta's overgrown baby by Furlong's attack. Uncle Brock's arrival on page 334, reading aloud a letter from Jules, begins M's recovery from her helpless, dependant infant state. M owes her mental recovery to Brock (rotten bastard that he is having murdered Loretta's first love Bernie) and Jules (who will eventually exploit many women and murder a policeman.) These two problematic (to put it mildly) men are instrumental in Maureen's return to adult independence -- which is what she had been trying to achieve by making money on the streets in the first place: unfortunately, Furlong looted M's secret money stash after the beating. Also, sister Betty's overheard arguments with Loretta add to M.'s recovery. When Betty hits L. in the mouth, one thinks: Thank God. I used to wish JCO had written about Betty instead of Maureen, but had to wait for Foxfire. The sterling influences of

wild Betty, adventurous Jules, and tender Brock will get M. out of bed, back to school and then an office job, night school college English classes, and eventually into an adulterous affair with a married teacher who will leave his wife & kids to make a new family with M. A dubious achievement, that marriage, but miraculous good fortune by Maureen's standards.

In short, M's ride on the bus with Loretta is a "real" experience both times: the first time muted by M's battered perceptions, the second time augmented by recalled physical details such as the waiting room memory of a fat, drooling child swaddled in a soiled red snowsuit -- M's fate for the the duration of her infantile months in Loretta's "care" post-beating.

Did you get any other replies to your them question on Tone Clusters? Will you please forward them to me? I don't think I receive postings from there anymore but am grateful that yours came through. Is your work on them still in process? What's going on with it now?

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 10/11/2007 8:02:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bigbowtai@hotmail.com writes:

Hi All,
I've been a relatively silent member for some time now, only occasionally posting comments. I'm currently writing on _them_ and am trying to work out a particular passage. (If you haven't read _them_ you might want to stop reading this post; plot discussion follows). I'm thinking specifically about the prologue (if that's even the right word for it) to Book Two. (Pg 228: I'm using the 2000 Modern Language edition). I "get" that Maureen is having a clairvoyant or out-of-body experience but I'm wondering about why the section begins with this sequence of events and then repeats within the standard narrative time on page 332. While the second occurrence is not constructed verbatim, it is the same sequence and comes within a longer example of Maureen's escape to the safety of the – I don't want to say "spiritual," but perhaps detached experience of life. She clearly values the life in books more than she appreciates her real-world experience. Is this just an example of her finding solace outside of the real world? By page 332, she is not speaking and is recovering from her traumatic experience with Furlong. Can I call this "clairvoyance?" Is it a successful, transformative event? Is it more real than what's happening in the real world? But most of all: Why repeat it?

I appreciate any discussion or encouragement about these statements.

best
tai
=

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JCO: JCO on BBC Radio today (12 noon GMT)

2007-10-28T03:18:00.000-07:00

Sorry for the short notice, but I've just spotted this!

Sunday 28 October
BBC RADIO 3 12:00
"Private Passions"
Michael Berkeley talks to American writer Joyce Carol Oates, one of the most
prolific of contemporary novelists and a professor at Princeton University.
Her latest novel, The Gravedigger's Daughter, deals with some of her
favourite themes - race, immigration, family and social mobility. Two pieces
of music mentioned in the book - Beethoven's Appassionata soata, and a Fauré
cello sonata - are among her choices. [from Radio Times]

Radio 3 can be listened to over the Internet - www.bbc.co.uk/radio3. After
the broadcast, hopefully the programme will be available as "listen again"
streams or as a podcast for a short period - I think up to 7 days.

N.B. for those outside the UK - British clocks went back last night, so
local time is now the same as GMT.

Gary

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group

To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco

Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
http://jco.usfca.edu/

Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-10-23T02:16:00.000-07:00

Richard,

Black Girl White Girl is also pertinent here. Although it's a book about girls, MInette's farther is an important black character. As opposed to Genna's white father. I suppose you would need to use some comparison if you want to show how JCO constructs black masculinity. Is it any different (and if so how) from white masculinity? What are your thoughts on the subject?

Cheers,

Marie (Sweden)

----- Original Message -----

From: Cyranomish@aol.com

To: jco@usfca.edu ; rlpeacock6@hotmail.com

Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 3:49 PM

Subject: Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project

Hi, Richard. Don't forget these early JCO short stories:

   "Fine White Mist of Winter" in By the North Gate (1963)

   "The Molesters" in the novel Expensive People (1968)

   "Up From Slavery," in The Hungry Ghosts (1974) this story originally published in Playboy Magazine

   "Concerning the Case of Bobby T" and "Assault" in The Goddess & Other Women (1974)

   "Golden Gloves" in Raven's Wing (1986)

   "An American Adventure" in The Seduction & Other Stories (1975)

   also the play Cry Me A River (198?)

Linking these stories to the novels would be a far more interesting and valuable endeavor than rehashing other readers' criticisms. The fiction itself is of vastly more importance than any critique material. JCO's short stories are vital to any appreciation of her novels.

     I'll be interested in your take on some of these early JCO works. Please copy me a message here at cyranomish@aol.com as well as via Tone Clusters.  There seems to be some difficulties with my communications with TC -- technical no doubt.

Best,

Cyrano





In a message dated 10/14/2007 1:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rlpeacock6@hotmail.com writes:

I am a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black (African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books specifically: I'll Take You There, I Lock the Door upon Myself and Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or like-minded study.

Thank you.

Richard

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Re: JCO: The Gravediggers Daughter - SPOILERS INCLUDED

2007-10-23T01:59:00.000-07:00

Hi Nicole,
It took me quite a while to get hold of the book and finish reading it. I
hope you are still interested in hearing what other people thought about it.
I loved the book and could not stop reading it. The ending was unexpected
but in a sense not surprising. While reading the book I found the passages
relating to imaginary Freyda so strongly beautiful and moving that I felt
intuitively that the author will come back to them in some way. Also - I
think they are well prepared by what happens at the end of the story, when
Rebecca goes down to the hotel kitchen to find herself among "her own
people" where she felt she belonged. Her son was now safe and ready to start
his own life, and she could return to her real self, if only partially and
in secret from her husband.
Chet, although kind and loving, remained in fact one of them, the enemies,
as Jacob Schwartz described them. She pretended to be somebody else and that
gave her enormous pain although it also helped her to give her son happy
childhood and musical education. Rebecca in a sense used Gallagher because
she did not love him. She even ensured that Zach get a large inheritance
from Thaddeus. She was faithful to Chet but she was not honest with him. I
suppose he accepted what he got - he was hoping to make her love him, in
which he failed. Was it her revenge on "them" for what happened to her in
her childhood? To get their money to support herself and her son, to be rich
and successful like them? Or was it to fulfil her father's prophecy- you are
one of them, they will not harm you.
The identity crisis is a great theme that can be interpreted in many ways.
That you cannot really bury your past. That it will come to you not only to
haunt you. You will miss it painfully. Particularly those happy bits and
Freyda was a very happy memory for Rebecca although broken so abruptly and
cruelly. The tragedy was that Freyda survived but, like Rebecca, was
psychologically destroyed and emotionally empty. Rebecca's letters have
gradually awoken Freyda's emotions but all of this was happening too late
for poor Rebecca.
What a wonderful novel JCO has written!
Cheers,
Marie (Sweden)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Provencher, Nicole D" <ndprovencher@lake.ollusa.edu>
To: <jco@usfca.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: JCO: The Gravediggers Daughter - SPOILERS INCLUDED

Eric,

I would have to say that the resolution of the characters is what was most
perplexing to me. I am very used to JCO "leaving" her characters to go on
with their lives when the story ends, but leaving the characters off and
then picking up with the cousins seemed strange to me. It did not seem as
if The Grave Digger's Daughter was a story about the cousins, although I can
understand the need for Rebecca/Hazel to want to make that connection. It
is very ironic that the cousin desires this same connection only when it is
to late.

I agree with you completely about this novel being one of her finest. It
seemed that several of the themes she deals with in other works have a more
finished feeling. The girl who survives when she is not meant to (her
father, Tignor, the man on the path - there were several for Rebecca) seems
to take on a particularly American quality here (as she is often reminded by
her father and brothers "you were born here") - however, the chronology of
the story was such that these attempts were not the most important thing -
but rather the dealing with the events that made Rebecca who she was (or was
not) - a truly American idea of reinventing the self. Was she denying this
in contacting her cousin? Or was it simply ok once she raised her son and
felt detached from who she was? I found this question arising again and
again as I neared the end of the book.

Your observations about family and drawing strength from family seem to
answer this question in part - that she was returning to family. But I
wonder if any of it was real for her? She invented the cousin for herself
in childhood games as she reinvented herself several times over throughout
the novel - I wonder if there was a common heritage? Is family in genetics
or what is invented? She had genetic and familiar (as with Chez)
connections - but none of them seemed real?

I did enjoy the novel - I found myself reading and rereading passages that
were particularly striking. I would love to hear what you and others
think - and questions the novel might have raised ...

- Nicole (Texas)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jco@usfca.edu on behalf of Eric Anderson
Sent: Tue 8/14/2007 5:44 AM
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: RE: JCO: The Gravediggers Daughter - SPOILERS INCLUDED

Hi Nicole

Thanks for your message. I was hoping we could discuss this novel here. I
think it's one of my new favorite novels by Oates, one of her absolute best.
As Michael Silverblatt commented in his interview with her, Gravediggers
Daughter seems to bring together a lot of the themes and subjects which are
closest to Oates as a writer. One of the things I think he was referring to
was the way in which Oates often writes of the survival of an individual
girl who perhaps feels she wasn't meant to survive (either in the personal
sense or within her own species). The man Rebecca meets on the path home who
might have killed her or her own father's decision to execute his family.

I found the book very moving as well. It's compelling how Rebecca feels
throughout her life that she both belongs to America, yet doesn't belong.
She's accepted as a bright pretty American girl, but only if she disguises
her Jewish heritage. She (finally) finds herself in a successful marriage to
a good man, but feels she can't continue her ties with her surviving family
in order to maintain her new position. This distortion of the self raises
obvious questions about to what degree the individual is really surviving if
her identity is so thoroughly transformed and denied. Perhaps because
America is such a great melting pot this is why Oates is particularly
concerned with this theme in Gravediggers Daughter and so much of her other
work.

Which parts perplexed you? The ending was quite a surprise - though in a way
it felt right as well. Rebecca's long lost cousin is someone who took the
complete opposite approach to Rebecca, did not distort her identity and
feels absolutely no need to either apologize for who she is or expect
different treatment because of her family's struggles. This has, of course,
created an entirely different set of problems for her. What we seem to
glimpse at the end is a possibility that these two diametric personalities
might come together (though for Rebecca it may be too late). They may be
able to set aside their strategies for dealing with life within a larger
society and come together as a family. If it doesn't sound to achingly
sentimental, I think Oates is saying by this ending that family is where
many people draw their strength to really survive - from both the supporting
influence of their love and the ability to be with those who share a common
heritage.

I'd love to hear what other people think as well. I'm seeing Oates read from
the book tonight in London and will relate anything back to the group which
is of particular interest.

eric

Subject: JCO: The Gravediggers DaughterDate: Tue, 14 Aug 2007
04:18:50 -0500From: ndprovencher@lake.ollusa.eduTo: jco@usfca.edu

I have just finished The Gravediggers Daughter. I am both deeply moved and
perplexed by the work - especially the ending. Has anyone else read this
work? Any thoughts? - Nicole
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Re: JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-10-14T06:49:00.000-07:00

Hi, Richard. Don't forget these early JCO short stories:

"Fine White Mist of Winter" in By the North Gate (1963)

"The Molesters" in the novel Expensive People (1968)

"Up From Slavery," in The Hungry Ghosts (1974) this story originally published in Playboy Magazine

"Concerning the Case of Bobby T" and "Assault" in The Goddess & Other Women (1974)

"Golden Gloves" in Raven's Wing (1986)

"An American Adventure" in The Seduction & Other Stories (1975)

also the play Cry Me A River (198?)

Linking these stories to the novels would be a far more interesting and valuable endeavor than rehashing other readers' criticisms. The fiction itself is of vastly more importance than any critique material. JCO's short stories are vital to any appreciation of her novels.

I'll be interested in your take on some of these early JCO works. Please copy me a message here at cyranomish@aol.com as well as via Tone Clusters. There seems to be some difficulties with my communications with TC -- technical no doubt.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 10/14/2007 1:09:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rlpeacock6@hotmail.com writes:

I am a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black (African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books specifically: I'll Take You There, I Lock the Door upon Myself and Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or like-minded study.

Thank you.

Richard

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JCO: Graduate Research Project

2007-10-13T22:09:00.000-07:00

I am a graduate student who is currently doing research on how black (African-American) masculinity is constructed in the fiction of Joyce Carol Oates. For my research project I am focusing on the following books specifically: I'll Take You There, I Lock the Door upon Myself and Because It is Bitter, Because It Is My Heart. That said, I'd like to find out what people know about this subject matter, either broadly or specifically. I'd especially like to know if anyone can direct me to any pertinent literary criticism or like-minded study.

Thank you.

Richard

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RE: JCO: Doris Lessing

2007-10-12T08:50:00.000-07:00

I was very pleased to hear the news.

Thanks for posting this Randy. It was good to read it again as I haven't done so for a long time.

Cheers
Eric

> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:49:44 -0400
> From: tinmachine@earthlink.net
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Subject: JCO: Doris Lessing
>
> If it's not Joyce Carol Oates to win the Nobel, then I'm happy to have Doris Lessing win it. See Celestial Timepiece to why JCO might feel the same way.
>
> Randy
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/

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Re: JCO: Doris Lessing

2007-10-11T19:01:00.000-07:00

Dear Randy,

I totally agree that if JCO did not get the Nobel prize this year, it was a joy to see Doris Lessing receive it. I've admired her work for years and, more importantly, so has JCO!

Best.

Christa

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JCO: Can we go back to _them?_

2007-10-11T17:01:00.000-07:00

Hi All,
I've been a relatively silent member for some time now, only occasionally posting comments. I'm currently writing on _them_ and am trying to work out a particular passage. (If you haven't read _them_ you might want to stop reading this post; plot discussion follows). I'm thinking specifically about the prologue (if that's even the right word for it) to Book Two. (Pg 228: I'm using the 2000 Modern Language edition). I "get" that Maureen is having a clairvoyant or out-of-body experience but I'm wondering about why the section begins with this sequence of events and then repeats within the standard narrative time on page 332. While the second occurrence is not constructed verbatim, it is the same sequence and comes within a longer example of Maureen's escape to the safety of the – I don't want to say "spiritual," but perhaps detached experience of life. She clearly values the life in books more than she appreciates her real-world experience. Is this just an example of her finding solace outside of the real world? By page 332, she is not speaking and is recovering from her traumatic experience with Furlong. Can I call this "clairvoyance?" Is it a successful, transformative event? Is it more real than what's happening in the real world? But most of all: Why repeat it?

I appreciate any discussion or encouragement about these statements.

best
tai

JCO: Doris Lessing

2007-10-11T15:49:00.000-07:00

If it's not Joyce Carol Oates to win the Nobel, then I'm happy to have Doris Lessing win it. See Celestial Timepiece to why JCO might feel the same way.

Randy

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Re: JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

2007-10-09T07:19:00.000-07:00

Does anyone know when the prize will be announced? It's usually on a Thursday, I think.... Angie

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Re: JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

2007-10-08T16:01:00.000-07:00

Hi, just discovered the Journal in the bookstore last week. Great photos.

Did you all see the New Yorker cartoon this week (Oct. 8; p. 61) : Husband reading newspaper while annoyed-looking wife works at computer. Husband: "Joyce Carol Oates seems to have no trouble coming out with book after book."

Oates, Roth, Updike -- all worthy winners.

Best,

Cyrano

In a message dated 10/8/2007 11:32:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rfoley7292@aol.com writes:

Afraid it's not going to happen again.

Ladbrokes is betting on Philip Roth.

Oh well.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony <ahris@yahoo.com>
To: jco@usfca.edu
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 9:58 am
Subject: JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

Knockout mouse genetic targeting won the medicine prize this morning - so maybe this is JCO's year, too?  Picked up my copy of the JCO Journals y'day and looking forward to the read. Greg, if you are out there, nice job!  -Anthony         ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and  more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658  ------------------------------------------------------------------- Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group  To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco  Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page: http://jco.usfca.edu/

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Re: JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

2007-10-08T08:32:00.000-07:00

Afraid it's not going to happen again.

Ladbrokes is betting on Philip Roth.

Oh well.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony <ahris@yahoo.com>
To: jco@usfca.edu
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 9:58 am
Subject: JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

Knockout mouse genetic targeting won the medicine prize this morning - so maybe this is JCO's year, too?  Picked up my copy of the JCO Journals y'day and looking forward to the read. Greg, if you are out there, nice job!  -Anthony         ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and  more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658  ------------------------------------------------------------------- Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group  To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco  Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page: http://jco.usfca.edu/

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JCO: Another Nobel Season is Upon Us ...

2007-10-08T06:58:00.000-07:00

Knockout mouse genetic targeting won the medicine
prize this morning - so maybe this is JCO's year, too?

Picked up my copy of the JCO Journals y'day and
looking forward to the read. Greg, if you are out
there, nice job!

-Anthony

____________________________________________________________________________________
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658

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JCO: Today In Literature: A Garden of Earthly Delights

2007-09-14T07:42:00.000-07:00

From Today in Literature daily newsleter, Sept. 7:

"Joyce Carol Oates's A Garden of Earthly Delights was published on this day in 1967. It was her second novel and her first hit, in a prolific, award-winning career which has provoked some to lobby for a Nobel nomination. Others, such as the writer of a recent article in Psychology Today — have placed Oates on their list of hypergraphics, the "midnight disease" of compulsive writers. The current tally of her books stands at 118, with three more due out shortly."

I don't know what "hypergraphics" means, but the phrase "compulsive writers" certainly sounds negative. However, I think they were just trying to be cleaver in the blurb at the bottom of the newsletter. There is another more positive piece about Oates on the site (http://www.todayinliterature.com/biography/joyce.carol.oates.asp).

When I read a novel like The Falls, or The Gravediggers Daughter, as I currently am reading, I couldn't care less about how many other books she has written because I am engrossed in the current work. I would expect that most readers are interested in the individual novels, not how many she has written, as they take you inside people in ways that can be very revealing for readers. The problem her "prolific" career has for me is one of not being able to keep up with her. I can't read as fast as she writes. I am always a little behind this group in reading her new novels. However, I don't mind having that problem, as there is always something wonderful to read on my bookshelves.

I scan the used bookstores for older novels that are not readily available. Last month I found a First Edition of American Appetites with J.C. Oates signature! What a find. I have about 10 of her older novels that haven't read yet because I am so busy with her current work.

Perhaps when reviewers mention how many novels she has written, they are not criticizing her so much as revealing how inferior they feel in not being able to read all she's written!

Actually, since I started this email, I read the article in Psycology Today, and it is not a negative thing, just a condition of the brain being in overdrive. Alice Flaherty, who published a book on the subject in 2004 called it The Midnight Disease. "Hypergraphia is abnormal, but it's not necessarily bad," she says. "For us it is mostly pleasurable. You only suffer when you think you're writing badly."

Well, shedoesn't write badly, so I don't think JCO is suffering! :)

Jane

Re: JCO: Grace Paley

2007-08-27T21:30:00.000-07:00

Thank you, Randy----it's a lovely tribute from you and from JCO. I've been enjoying Grace Paley at least as long as I have been enjoying JCO------she really was a great lady.

Regards

Christa

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Re: JCO: Grace Paley

2007-08-27T16:52:00.000-07:00

Grace, in her own voice:

http://tinyurl.com/39xueu

and best of all

http://tinyurl.com/3bx3t8

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Re: JCO: Grace Paley

2007-08-27T16:47:00.000-07:00

and here's a little Grace, in her own voice, re-aired last week on NPR.

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JCO: Grace Paley

2007-08-27T15:12:00.000-07:00

In honor of Grace Paley's death, I've posted Joyce Carol Oates's review of her short stories:

http://jco.usfca.edu/paley.html

Randy

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Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page

Re: JCO: introduction and a few reviews

2007-08-24T08:07:00.000-07:00

Hi, Me. I come from the midwest, not far from Lockport, NY, and have been reading JCO since the mid-1960s, starting with her short stories which were published under the name J.C. Oates. Her consciousness and sensibilities are similar to mine; we grew up in approximately the same social class: in some ways she had it a lot rougher than I did; in others ways infinitely better. I usually shy away from book-review discussions because I prefer to discuss the text itself, not what various reviewers said in times past. (The same thing goes for author interviews and public signings and other Oates-sightings.) For about 30 years I wrote book reviews for various newspapers (and published two conversations I had with JCO -- one around BELLEFLEUR, the other around BLACK WATER, although we discussed many of her other works during our talks.) I may take a look at your reviews although I prefer text-focused discussions that occur in more-or-less real-time at this site. Perhaps you could throw out some ideas you have about the latest JCO work(s) you have read, whether for review or for your own interest. That would be most welcome. In recent years, discussion of text has dropped almost out of sight at this site, in which I've participated since 1996. Most appearances of a new JCO work are greeted by discussions of book reviews and what JCO has "said" about the text after she has completed it rather than the text itself. Book review (as opposed to book) discussions usually bog down in one of two ways:

1. A positive review that makes any further site discussion seem unnecessary.

2. A negative review that focuses site discussion on what a jerk the reviewer is.

I look forward to hearing from you. Have you seen the movie Small Avalanches yet? (The DVD copy I ordered last week is supposedly on its way from Canada to me.) And speaking of movies, have you seen The Prizewinner of Defiance, Ohio yet? -- it's a midwest memoir of another large family, which you might find of interest.

Best,

Cyrano

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JCO: introduction and a few reviews

2007-08-23T08:06:00.000-07:00

Hello,

Just a little introduction. I'm a lawyer from a small town in
upstate New York. I'm from a very large family and am the son and
grandson of factory workers. My first introduction to Joyce Carol
Oates was through "We Were the Mulvaneys", which worked for me on
several levelsI loved its very accurate description of the lifestyle
and people of upstate New York, and its description of a family in
transition from nuclear to extended fit in very well with a similar
process my family was undergoing at the time.

Over the course of succeeding years, I've on occasion picked a few
novels by Oates, and some of them have worked for me, and some
haven't. I keep a blog at www.journalscape.com/brainsalad, and at
times I have put up reviews of a few of her novels. You can link to
those reviews here.

http://www.journalscape.com/Brainsalad/2003-12-10-18:34
("The Tattooed Girl")

http://www.journalscape.com/Brainsalad/2004-11-17-07:16
("Solstice" and "Rape: A Love Story" briefly discussed among other topics)

http://www.journalscape.com/Brainsalad/2005-07-16-14:21
("Do with me what you will")

http://www.journalscape.com/Brainsalad/2005-07-24-00:41

("Zombie" along with "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night
Time" by another novel by Mark Haddon and a discussion of Kurt
Vonnegut's writing style)

The last entry is the one I've gotten the most positive feedback on.

So anyway, I was curious as to what serious Oates fans would think of
my reviews. Any comments would be welcome.

Me
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Re: JCO: Re: Zombie (Spoil Alert)

2007-08-20T06:06:00.000-07:00

Along this subject, I also think of the artist "Name Unknown" in the Rosamond
Smith novel "The Barrens".

Tanya

Selon Gary Couzens <gjcouzens@btinternet.com>:

> Another JCO story dealing with a killer is the novella The Triumph of the
> Spider Monkey. It's much more experimental in style and I'm afraid made
> rather less impression on me.
>
> The thing that struck me about Zombie was the sense - no doubt intended -
> that Quentin is a flawed human being who doesn't get things right - but he
> keeps on trying. When you square that with what he *is* actually trying to
> do, it gives the novel (novella? it's really quite short) a blackly comic
> edge which if anything made it more disturbing for me.
>
> Zombie won the Stoker Award for Best Novel, awarded by the Horror Writers of
> America. JCO isn't a horror-genre writer as such, but she's certainly highly
> respected in the genre and appears regularly in genre anthologies. (I'd rate
> Son of the Morning as one of her best "horror" novels, though its subject
> matter is entirely different to that of Zombie.)
>
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Provencher, Nicole D" <ndprovencher@lake.ollusa.edu>
> To: <jco@usfca.edu>
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:01 AM
> Subject: JCO: Zombie (Spoil Alert)
>
>
> Zombie -
>
> I read Zombie this evening. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to
> how this story "fits in" with Oates' other works? I have not read Oates
> chronologically or in any particular order (it seems more like the books
> just come to me) and I was disturbed by this work more than any other I have
> read. While many of Oates' stories involving female protagonists end with
> the feeling that the female will go on with her life and find a way to keep
> living, the idea of Quentin allowed to live and plotting and planning is
> very upsetting. Is this male (killer) character revisited in any other
> other works that you have run across? Any ideas on this novel anyone wants
> to discuss?
>
> Also, I noticed that Quentin counts time in this work by placing stones on
> the air-conditioner by the window. Rebecca does the same thing to count
> time in The Grave Digger's Daughter. A little detail - but I found it
> interesting that it appeared in two completely different characters - has
> anyone seen this in other works?
>
> - Nicole (Texas)
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
> Celestial Timepiece: A Joyce Carol Oates Home Page:
> http://jco.usfca.edu/
>

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JCO: Guardian Review Book Club: The Falls - Week Four

2007-08-19T11:11:00.001-07:00

To end this month's Guardian Review Book Club, John Mullan discusses reader
responses, drawn from the event I attended last Monday:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/bookclub/story/0,,2150921,00.html

There is a podcast of the event available from the site.

Gary

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JCO: Re: Zombie (Spoil Alert)

2007-08-19T11:08:00.000-07:00

Another JCO story dealing with a killer is the novella The Triumph of the
Spider Monkey. It's much more experimental in style and I'm afraid made
rather less impression on me.

The thing that struck me about Zombie was the sense - no doubt intended -
that Quentin is a flawed human being who doesn't get things right - but he
keeps on trying. When you square that with what he *is* actually trying to
do, it gives the novel (novella? it's really quite short) a blackly comic
edge which if anything made it more disturbing for me.

Zombie won the Stoker Award for Best Novel, awarded by the Horror Writers of
America. JCO isn't a horror-genre writer as such, but she's certainly highly
respected in the genre and appears regularly in genre anthologies. (I'd rate
Son of the Morning as one of her best "horror" novels, though its subject
matter is entirely different to that of Zombie.)

Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Provencher, Nicole D" <ndprovencher@lake.ollusa.edu>
To: <jco@usfca.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: JCO: Zombie (Spoil Alert)

Zombie -

I read Zombie this evening. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to
how this story "fits in" with Oates' other works? I have not read Oates
chronologically or in any particular order (it seems more like the books
just come to me) and I was disturbed by this work more than any other I have
read. While many of Oates' stories involving female protagonists end with
the feeling that the female will go on with her life and find a way to keep
living, the idea of Quentin allowed to live and plotting and planning is
very upsetting. Is this male (killer) character revisited in any other
other works that you have run across? Any ideas on this novel anyone wants
to discuss?

Also, I noticed that Quentin counts time in this work by placing stones on
the air-conditioner by the window. Rebecca does the same thing to count
time in The Grave Digger's Daughter. A little detail - but I found it
interesting that it appeared in two completely different characters - has
anyone seen this in other works?

- Nicole (Texas)

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