JCO: World Events

The sole purpose of this forum is to discuss the works of Joyce Carol Oates. That JCO stories are compared with current world events is entirely appropriate; however, given that the members of this forum are from all over the U.S., and around the world, and given that tragedies large and small occur every day all around the world, it would be good for posters to be sensitive to the fact that some members of this forum may have a personal connection to some current events discussed.

This list has been very quiet for a long time. Please remember when you speak that you are speaking to a hundred people whose experiences and culture are likely very different than your own. If you feel you must speak off the topic of this forum, please address your remarks to appropriate individuals, not to the entire group.

Everyone from time to time speaks without thinking, or out of ignorance, or out of emotion. Let's please forgive and forget, and let's talk about JCO.

Thanks!
Randy

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RE: JCO: Upon the Sweeping Flood

Hi Christa:

I  think that, in your perfectly normal response to the many tragedies created by the hurricane, you may underestimate how involved the other people in the group are.  Because this is a literary discussion group focused on JCO's writings, and not a general purpose forum, it's natural to see a response to the the hurricane, in this specific group, in terms of comparing the terrible things that have happened to issues from JCO's work.  If none of us cared about Hurricane Katrina, no one would even have brought the matter up.  This says nothing about what anyone may or may not have done privately or through other channels.

There's a danger that, in our involvement with whatever we've done, under circumstances where our emotions are so roiled up by everything that's happened, we may feel impatient with those who follow different strategies from ours (something that sounds very much like a JCO theme).  I have the greatest respect for your generosity, and you and those your are sheltering have my strongest hopes that everything will work out as well as possible for you all, given the tragic situation.  I believe, though, that Cyrano's advice was not only well meant, but that it does contain something valuable to think about.  I'm sure you're aware of people whose response to the hurricane is precisely the opposite of yours.  The scammers (including, as you no doubt have heard, a group of anti-Semitic white supremacists) are already trying to take advantage of those who want to help, as well as of the victims themselves.  Given the prevalence of fraud and other crimes on the internet, we can't automatically assume that the people advertising rooms for the victims necessarily have good motives.  No doubt most of them do, and perhaps all of them do, but it's perfectly possible that some of them are looking for helpless people to take advantage of.  Life, and the internet, repeatedly confirm that JCO doesn't make up her stories about monstrous predators purely out of her head.  While person to person generosity is a particularly wonderful thing when it works, there's definitely something to be said for working through organizations such as the Red Cross that, whatever their shortcomings, can be expected not to do any deliberate harm, even when we have no personal knowledge of the people who work there.

As for the many failures of judgment we've seen, there are plenty of sites designed to let us make our views and criticisms known, and I'd be surprised if it weren't true that a lot of members of Tone Clusters have expressed their opinions, whatever precisely those opinions are.

 

Again, I wish you and the people you're helping the best, and admire very much the way that you're putting your ideals into action.

 

Steve

 

I was interested to see (in a horrified sort of way) that the only response on these boards to the tragedy in New Orleans is to compare it to one of JCO's short stories.  No one expressed any sorrow or outrage at the fact that these people were left to suffer for five days before any help came; two of you long for the twentieth century, and one of you is contemptuous of those people "up north" who are taking evacuees into their houses.

 

I am in South Carolina, which I suppose is north of New Orleans; I have taken in a small family of evacuees.  If it turns into a JCO short story----if I am looted, raped, or murdered---I will certainly tell you, or (if dead) get a friend to pass along the word to you.

 

How George Bush would approve of your detachment!  and how impressed I am that you have gotten this far in life with such a remarkable lack of compassion.  Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are sending money or collecting food for those people, as long as they stay away from you.

 

Christa

Re: JCO: Upon the Sweeping Flood

I was interested to see (in a horrified sort of way) that the only response on these boards to the tragedy in New Orleans is to compare it to one of JCO's short stories.  No one expressed any sorrow or outrage at the fact that these people were left to suffer for five days before any help came; two of you long for the twentieth century, and one of you is contemptuous of those people "up north" who are taking evacuees into their houses.

 

I am in South Carolina, which I suppose is north of New Orleans; I have taken in a small family of evacuees.  If it turns into a JCO short story----if I am looted, raped, or murdered---I will certainly tell you, or (if dead) get a friend to pass along the word to you.

 

How George Bush would approve of your detachment!  and how impressed I am that you have gotten this far in life with such a remarkable lack of compassion.  Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are sending money or collecting food for those people, as long as they stay away from you.

 

Christa

Re: JCO: Upon the Sweeping Flood

Hi, Jane. Sometimes people respond heroically to disaster. The hero of
Sweeping Flood initially tries to rescue 2 of the flood victims, but adversity
(and the victims' reluctance to be rescued on the hero's terms) pervert the
hero's good intentions, and frustration leads to an unexpected upwelling of
violence. Last summer, several Tone Cluster folks examined the stories in JCO's
first story collection BY THE NORTH GATE and found similar scenarios: particularly
the story "Swamp" about an elderly man who thinks he can single-handedly help
a wild girl but is totally defeated by her wildness. The subsequent NORTH
GATE story "Ceremonies" shows how an entire community reaches out to a
distressed family and -- in its own clumsy way -- offers effective help: significantly
"Ceremonies" is narrated in the collective first-person-plural voice -- an
interesting story-telling device. JCO stories often illustrate how unexamined
egoism defeats one's best intentions.
I recently heard that some well-intentioned people up north are trying to
help Louisiana flood victims by offering -- on Craig's List -- rooms in their
homes. That sounds like a scenario for a similar JCO story. It's natural to
want to shelter a refugee, but I hope that -- on second thought -- those
generous folks will go through organizations like the Red Cross, the Salvation
Army or the Quakers to exercise their charity.
Cyrano

In a message dated 9/8/2005 11:06:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jward1108@hotmail.com writes:

<< Hi Cyrano,
That is exactly what I meant, about the unsuspected "primitive"
instincts that are experienced through her stories. The nightmarish
images of rapes and shootings, a young girl with her throat slashed, all
unthinkable such a short time ago, seemed straight out of a JCO story.
Thanks for your response. I too am feeling nostalgic for the 20th
century.
Jane >>
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