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Tone Clusters: the Joyce Carol Oates discussion group archive

Thursday, October 07, 2004

Re: JCO: Oates Country & THe Falls

Hi, Jane. A friend drove me around the Lockport/Millersport/Niagara region
last winter. JCO's childhood home was torn down some years ago and replaced
with a modern house, but I enjoyed seeing "the creek" running behind the houses
-- quite visible from the road with the leaves off the trees. A lot of her
"back there" stories involve "the crick" -- also the story "The Molesters" which
appears in the novel EXPENSIVE PEOPLE. We passed the little airfield where
JCO's father took her flying in his plane. (See Greg Johnson bio.) Before
leaving the area we stopped at the county library down the road from the old JCO
homestead, but the librarian didn't know a thing about the author or her history
in the neighborhood. I said "You'd better read about her -- she may win the
Nobel Prize somday." :>}
Yes, let's talk about THE FALLS. I read it a couple of months ago, but
it's still fairly fresh in memory. I was intrigued by The Woman in Black who
turns up in the graveyard. At first I thought it was Nina, but then she had
that stilted, upper-class diction like Ariya's mother-in-law. Or maybe it was a
phantom! What do you think?
Cyrano

In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:52:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jward199@sbcglobal.net writes:

<< So, to change the subject . . ..

My best friend and I are going on vacation to Oates Country (a.k.a. Western
New York) at the end of this month. Being from Central Illinois, where the
Illinois River is the only thing to break up the corn fields that replaced the
magnificent parries that once covered this land, I am excited to see the
landscape of so many of JCO's stories.

Also, having just finish The Falls, I'm quite excited to see Niagara Falls
for the first time!

>>
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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

I don't believe they are obscure in their own countries. There are lots of
writers here in the US to keep up with -- and even more outside our borders--
so it's almost impossible to be well acquainted with all of them.
Cyrano

In a message dated 10/7/2004 4:54:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
NotEnoughKittens@aol.com writes:

<< Having in the past tried to keep an open mind
and taken a look at some of the terrifyingly obscure writers who were
awarded
this prize, I now simply have to believe that the award itself is worthless
>>
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Re: JCO: Nobel prize/Oates Country

It is so obvious that we are biased about who should receive the Nobel Prize. I think she will someday be the recipiant.
 
So, to change the subject . . ..
 
My best friend and I are going on vacation to Oates Country (a.k.a. Western New York) at the end of this month. Being from Central Illinois, where the Illinois River is the only thing to break up the corn fields that replaced the magnificent parries that once covered this land, I am excited to see the landscape of so many of JCO's stories.
 
Also, having just finish The Falls, I'm quite excited to see Niagara Falls for the first time!
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I get to see her speak about The Falls in Chicago on Nov. 13 at the Chicago Humanities Festival.  What a JCO season this fall will be for me! Almost makes me forget about the civil war about to happen in this country (okay I'm exaggerating, I meant the upcoming elections).
 
I would love someone to start a conversation on The Falls. Cyrano, are you game?
 
Your Fellow JCO Enthusiast,
 
Jane Ward

Re: JCO: Nobel prize

I know the name, but that's mostly from seeing the film of "The Piano
Teacher". I haven't read anything of hers.

Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaffney, Karen"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: JCO: Nobel prize


> Alas, we'll have to keep waiting for JCO to win. Below is an article from
> today's NY Times describing the Austrian winner. I'm not familiar with her
> work.
> -Karen
>
>
> Austrian Writer Wins Nobel in Literature
>
> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
>
>
> Filed at 10:36 a.m. ET
>
> STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Austrian feminist writer Elfriede Jelinek won
> the Nobel Prize in literature, the Swedish Academy said Thursday, citing
> her ``musical flow of voices and counter-voices in novels and plays.''
>
> The decision to award the prize to a woman, and a poet, was the first
> since 1996, when Wislawa Szymborska of Poland won. Since the prize first
> was handed out in 1901, only nine women have won it.
>
> Jelinek, 57, made her literary debut with the collection ``Lisas
> Schatten'' in 1967. Her writing took a critical turn after her involvement
> with the student movements that were prevalent throughout Europe in the
> 1970s, coming out with her satirical novel ``We Are Decoys, Baby!''
>
> That was followed by other works, including ``Wonderful, Wonderful Times''
> in 1990 and ``The Piano Teacher'' in 1988, which was made into an
> acclaimed film in 2001 by director Michael Haneke and starred Isabelle
> Huppert.
>
> The novel, and the film, tells the story of a veteran piano teacher,
> Erika, a harsh and demanding taskmistress who indulges her extreme sexual
> tastes with hardcore pornography and voyeurism. She becomes sexually
> involved with a student -- but only under her terms and dictates.
>
> She had a best seller in 1989 with ``Lust,'' which she has described as
> portraying ``the violence by the man against the woman'' in a conventional
> marriage.
>
> The academy noted that Jelinek is controversial in Austria, which she
> depicted as a realm of death in her phantasmagorical novel ``Die Kinder
> der Toten.''
>
> In 2000, she instructed her publishers to withhold the performance rights
> of her plays from all Austrian theaters as long as the party of rightist
> leader Joerg Haider was part of the government.
>
> ``Her writing builds on a lengthy Austrian tradition of linguistically
> sophisticated social criticism, with precursors such as Johann Nepomuk
> Nestroy, Karl Kraus, Odon von Horvath, Elias Canetti, Thomas Bernhard and
> the Wiener Group,'' the academy said in its citation.
>
> ``The nature of Jelinek's texts is often hard to define. They shift
> between prose and poetry, incantation and hymn, they contain theatrical
> scenes and filmic sequences.''
>
> Her recent works are variations on one of her basic feminist themes: the
> seeming inability of women to find themselves fully and live out their
> lives in a world where they are glossed over as stereotypes.
>
> The 18 lifetime members of the 218-year-old Swedish Academy, of whom only
> four are women, made the annual selection in secrecy last week.
>
> Alfred Nobel, the Swedish industrialist and inventor of dynamite who
> endowed the awards, left only vague guidance about the prize, saying in
> his will that it should go to those who ``shall have conferred the
> greatest benefit on mankind'' and ``who shall have produced in the field
> of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction.''
>
> For any writer, there could hardly be any greater honor than winning the
> Nobel Prize. But for an author whose work is not widely translated, it
> opens doors to new markets, and sales.
>
> The prize also brings a financial security net, too: A check of more than
> $1.3 million.
>
> The academy has given the award to Europeans nine times in the last 10
> years.
>
> Since 1980, only three winners have come from Africa, four from South
> America, two from the United States and one from Asia. It's been 14 years
> since someone from the Middle East -- Egyptian Naguib Mahfouz -- was given
> the nod.
>
> Last year's award went to South African writer J.M. Coetzee, whose fiction
> drew on his experiences growing up there. In 2002, the prize went to
> Hungarian writer Imre Kertesz, whose fiction drew on his experience as a
> teenager in the Auschwitz concentration camp.
>
> This year's award announcements began Monday with the Nobel Prize in
> physiology or medicine going to Americans Richard Axel and Linda B. Buck
> for their work on the sense of smell.
>
> On Tuesday, Americans David J. Gross, H. David Politzer and Frank Wilczek
> won the physics prize for their explanation of the force that binds
> particles inside the atomic nucleus. Their work has helped science get
> closer to ``a theory for everything,'' the academy said in awarding the
> prize.
>
> The chemistry prize was awarded Wednesday to Israelis Aaron Ciechanover
> and Avram Hershko and American Irwin Rose for their work in discovering a
> process that lets cells destroy unwanted proteins.
>
> The Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel
> will be announced Oct. 11.
>
> The winner of the coveted peace prize -- the only one not awarded in
> Sweden -- will be announced Friday in Oslo, Norway.
>
> The prizes, which also include a gold medal and a diploma, are presented
> on Dec. 10, the anniversary of Nobel's death in 1896.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jco@usfca.edu on behalf of Cyranomish@aol.com
> Sent: Thu 10/7/2004 11:02 AM
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: JCO: Nobel prize
>
>
>
> Thanks, Bjorn: Which country? A woman? Poet, play or novels?
> Cyrano
>
> In a message dated 10/7/2004 9:39:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bjorn.hj@mail.com writes:
>
> << Elfriede Jelinek, to bad... Our academy vanted to be "advanced".
>
> Björn >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To subscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: subscribe jco
> To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
>
>


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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Randy is right---every year we grieve or become irritated over JCO not being honored with the Nobel prize.  Having in the past tried to keep an open mind and taken a look at some of the terrifyingly obscure writers who were awarded this prize, I now simply have to believe that the award itself is worthless.
 
I will continue to read JCO and other great writers with the same pleasure, and continue to look forward to discovering new writers; I will simply learn what I should have learned long ago, and that is to discount literary awards as any sign of literary value.
 
Christa

Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Thanks, Karen. That really inspired me to read this interesting woman's
work.
Cyrano
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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Hey all,

I often wonder what the point of these prizes could possibly be, other than
the aggrandizement of the august body that dishes them up... but if they
really could serve as a way an obscure but exceptional writer could have
some doors opened, that would be a fine thing.

I'm not sure that JCO is either obscure or needs any doors opened any more.
Certainly it seems like she can put out pretty much anything she wants and
as much of it as often as humanly possible, or somewhat more often than
that, it seems, it do! And her work is well above the radar- it ain't hard
to find. So what is to be gained from awarding her this prize, other than
showing off the good taste of the judges?

Ted

on 10/7/04 9:07 AM, jandsmerritt at jandsmerritt@earthlink.net wrote:

> Hi Randy and Everyone:
>
>>
>> We do this every year. I am disappointed that JCO didn't get the
>> award, but that someone with whose work I am not familiar did get
>> it doesn't upset me--it just makes me curious. Who is this
>> unfamiliar (to me) writer who is good enough to get a Nobel
>> prize? That's kind of exciting--a directed discovery.
>
> I agree. Jelinek may be an outstanding writer. However, I suspect that the
> Academy, aside from honoring her accomplishments, may also have wanted to
> send an anti-Joerg Haider message.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
> To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
> To subscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: subscribe jco
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RE: JCO: Nobel prize

Hi Randy and Everyone:

>
> We do this every year. I am disappointed that JCO didn't get the
> award, but that someone with whose work I am not familiar did get
> it doesn't upset me--it just makes me curious. Who is this
> unfamiliar (to me) writer who is good enough to get a Nobel
> prize? That's kind of exciting--a directed discovery.

I agree. Jelinek may be an outstanding writer. However, I suspect that the
Academy, aside from honoring her accomplishments, may also have wanted to
send an anti-Joerg Haider message.

Steve






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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

We do this every year. I am disappointed that JCO didn't get the award, but that someone with whose work I am not familiar did get it doesn't upset me--it just makes me curious. Who is this unfamiliar (to me) writer who is good enough to get a Nobel prize? That's kind of exciting--a directed discovery.

On the Nobel site there is a long article on the criteria and history of the interpretation of the criteria for the Nobel Literature prize. It is very instructive, and fairly candid on early failings of the prize choices, and criticism of past and recent trends.
http://nobelprize.org/literature/articles/espmark/index.html

Randy


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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Hello Christa,

I was disappointed JCO didn't win, but I haven't read any work of this year's choice, so I can't say whether it's outrageous or not. There are certainly great writers who remain very little known until they win a significant prize. Let's keep our fingers crossed for next year!

Lara

NotEnoughKittens@aol.com wrote:
Once again, another outrageous choice----I believe I will give up.  Winning the Nobel prize for literature has now become a parody of some kind.....
 
 
 
 
Christa

Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Once again, another outrageous choice----I believe I will give up.  Winning the Nobel prize for literature has now become a parody of some kind.....
 
 
 
 
Christa

Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Here is some information on this year's winner. Lara

Stockholm -- Austrian feminist writer Elfriede Jelinek won the Nobel
Prize in literature, the Swedish Academy said Thursday, citing her
"musical flow of voices and counter-voices in novels and plays."

Ms. Jelinek told reporters in Vienna that she felt "more despair than
peace" about winning the prize.

"It doesn't suit me as a person to be put on public display," she told
the Austria Press Agency. "I feel threatened by it. ... I hope it
doesn't cost me too much. I hope I can enjoy the prize money, because
one can live carefree with it."


Elfriede Jelinek

The decision to award the prize to a woman, and a poet, was the first
since 1996, when Wislawa Szymborska of Poland won. Since the prize first
was handed out in 1901, only 10 women have won it.

Ms. Jelinek, 57, made her literary debut with the collection Lisas
Schatten in 1967. Her writing took a critical turn after her involvement
with the student movements that were prevalent throughout Europe in the
1970s, coming out with her satirical novel We Are Decoys, Baby!

She is unpopular in her native Austria, where she was shunned by some
political leaders, in part because of her vehement opposition to the
rise of the rightist Freedom Party led by Joerg Haider, which became
part of the governing coalition in 2000 on a platform that critics
called anti-Semitic and anti-foreigner.

In recent years, Ms. Jelinek's plays have received an icy reception in
Austria, where screenings have been marred by booing, shouting matches
and patrons abruptly leaving the theatre.

Communist party chairman Walter Baier hailed Ms. Jelinek as "a feminist
and one of the most important voices of the 'other Austria,'" and he
credited the writer for her "unabashed and public attacks" on the
Freedom Party.

Among Ms. Jelinek's fans in Austria is Andreas Kohl, the president of
Parliament, who said he was "pleased for her and for Austria."

A prominent German literary critic, Marcel Reich-Ranicki, told the
Associated Press that the choice was "very pleasing."

Ms. Jelinek is "a very unusual, completely offbeat, radical and extreme
writer, and as a result of that very controversial," he said, adding
that the core issues in her work are the role of women, violence and
power in the consumer society and sexuality.

Those are themes that are evident in some of Ms. Jelinek's better-known
works, including 1988's The Piano Teacher, which was adapted into a 2001
film by director Michael Haneke.

The novel and the film tell the story of a piano instructor, Erika, a
demanding taskmaster who embarks on a dramatic affair with a younger
music student.

Ms. Jelinek's recent work has been politically charged.

Her latest play, Bambiland, written in 2003 and translated into English
in 2004, is a head-on attack against the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Horace Engdahl, secretary-general of the academy, emphasized that the
prize should not be interpreted as a political comment.

"When that play came out, this decision was -- if not already made --
then well under way," he said. "I don't think that play adds much to her
authorship."

He said Bambiland depicts how "the patriotic enthusiasm turns into
insanity." And, he added, "she's completely right about that."

Mr. Engdahl said many of her works also focus on the entertainment
industry, in Europe and America, which she "believes affects people in a
way that makes them susceptible to the economic elite." Using parody and
satire, Ms. Jelinek tries to tear down the industry's facade, he said.

Mr. Engdahl said the academy may be criticized for choosing a writer
whose works are not readily accessible to average readers, and whom many
will find hard to understand. Many of her books completely lack a
traditional plot, focusing instead on "making voices perceptible that
are not her own. There's no author's voice, in a way."

"She'll be seen as an exclusive writer that perhaps the average person
will have a hard time embracing," he continued. "But I think readers
will get used to her in time."

He said readers who open one of Ms. Jelinek's novels must "shake off the
standard expectations you have when reading a novel, that is that a
story is about to be told."

The 18 lifetime members of the 218-year-old Swedish Academy, of whom
only four are women, made the annual selection in secrecy last week.

Alfred Nobel, the Swedish industrialist and inventor of dynamite who
endowed the awards, left only vague guidance about the prize, saying in
his will that it should go to those who "shall have conferred the
greatest benefit on mankind" and "who shall have produced in the field
of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction."

For any writer, there could hardly be any greater honour than winning
the Nobel Prize. But for an author whose work is not widely translated,
it opens doors to new markets and sales.

The prize also brings a financial security net, too: A cheque for 10
million kronor (more than $1.7-million Canadian).

The academy has given the award to Europeans nine times in the past 10
years.

Since 1980, only three winners have come from Africa, four from South
America, two from the United States and one from Asia. It has been 14
years since someone from the Middle East -- Egyptian Naguib Mahfouz --
was given the nod. A Canadian-born American, Saul Bellow, won in 1976.

Last year's award went to South African writer J.M. Coetzee, whose
fiction drew on his experiences growing up there.



Cyranomish@aol.com wrote:

>Thanks, Bjorn: Which country? A woman? Poet, play or novels?
>Cyrano
>
>In a message dated 10/7/2004 9:39:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>bjorn.hj@mail.com writes:
>
><< Elfriede Jelinek, to bad... Our academy vanted to be "advanced".
>
>Björn >>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tone Clusters: The Joyce Carol Oates discussion group
>
>To send a message to the group, email jco@usfca.edu
>To subscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: subscribe jco
>To unsubscribe, email majordomo@usfca.edu: unsubscribe jco
>
>
>

RE: JCO: Nobel prize

Alas, we'll have to keep waiting for JCO to win. Below is an article from today's NY Times describing the Austrian winner. I'm not familiar with her work.
-Karen


Austrian Writer Wins Nobel in Literature

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



Filed at 10:36 a.m. ET

STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Austrian feminist writer Elfriede Jelinek won the Nobel Prize in literature, the Swedish Academy said Thursday, citing her ``musical flow of voices and counter-voices in novels and plays.''

The decision to award the prize to a woman, and a poet, was the first since 1996, when Wislawa Szymborska of Poland won. Since the prize first was handed out in 1901, only nine women have won it.

Jelinek, 57, made her literary debut with the collection ``Lisas Schatten'' in 1967. Her writing took a critical turn after her involvement with the student movements that were prevalent throughout Europe in the 1970s, coming out with her satirical novel ``We Are Decoys, Baby!''

That was followed by other works, including ``Wonderful, Wonderful Times'' in 1990 and ``The Piano Teacher'' in 1988, which was made into an acclaimed film in 2001 by director Michael Haneke and starred Isabelle Huppert.

The novel, and the film, tells the story of a veteran piano teacher, Erika, a harsh and demanding taskmistress who indulges her extreme sexual tastes with hardcore pornography and voyeurism. She becomes sexually involved with a student -- but only under her terms and dictates.

She had a best seller in 1989 with ``Lust,'' which she has described as portraying ``the violence by the man against the woman'' in a conventional marriage.

The academy noted that Jelinek is controversial in Austria, which she depicted as a realm of death in her phantasmagorical novel ``Die Kinder der Toten.''

In 2000, she instructed her publishers to withhold the performance rights of her plays from all Austrian theaters as long as the party of rightist leader Joerg Haider was part of the government.

``Her writing builds on a lengthy Austrian tradition of linguistically sophisticated social criticism, with precursors such as Johann Nepomuk Nestroy, Karl Kraus, Odon von Horvath, Elias Canetti, Thomas Bernhard and the Wiener Group,'' the academy said in its citation.

``The nature of Jelinek's texts is often hard to define. They shift between prose and poetry, incantation and hymn, they contain theatrical scenes and filmic sequences.''

Her recent works are variations on one of her basic feminist themes: the seeming inability of women to find themselves fully and live out their lives in a world where they are glossed over as stereotypes.

The 18 lifetime members of the 218-year-old Swedish Academy, of whom only four are women, made the annual selection in secrecy last week.

Alfred Nobel, the Swedish industrialist and inventor of dynamite who endowed the awards, left only vague guidance about the prize, saying in his will that it should go to those who ``shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind'' and ``who shall have produced in the field of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction.''

For any writer, there could hardly be any greater honor than winning the Nobel Prize. But for an author whose work is not widely translated, it opens doors to new markets, and sales.

The prize also brings a financial security net, too: A check of more than $1.3 million.

The academy has given the award to Europeans nine times in the last 10 years.

Since 1980, only three winners have come from Africa, four from South America, two from the United States and one from Asia. It's been 14 years since someone from the Middle East -- Egyptian Naguib Mahfouz -- was given the nod.

Last year's award went to South African writer J.M. Coetzee, whose fiction drew on his experiences growing up there. In 2002, the prize went to Hungarian writer Imre Kertesz, whose fiction drew on his experience as a teenager in the Auschwitz concentration camp.

This year's award announcements began Monday with the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine going to Americans Richard Axel and Linda B. Buck for their work on the sense of smell.

On Tuesday, Americans David J. Gross, H. David Politzer and Frank Wilczek won the physics prize for their explanation of the force that binds particles inside the atomic nucleus. Their work has helped science get closer to ``a theory for everything,'' the academy said in awarding the prize.

The chemistry prize was awarded Wednesday to Israelis Aaron Ciechanover and Avram Hershko and American Irwin Rose for their work in discovering a process that lets cells destroy unwanted proteins.

The Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel will be announced Oct. 11.

The winner of the coveted peace prize -- the only one not awarded in Sweden -- will be announced Friday in Oslo, Norway.

The prizes, which also include a gold medal and a diploma, are presented on Dec. 10, the anniversary of Nobel's death in 1896.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jco@usfca.edu on behalf of Cyranomish@aol.com
Sent: Thu 10/7/2004 11:02 AM
To: jco@usfca.edu
Cc:
Subject: Re: JCO: Nobel prize



Thanks, Bjorn: Which country? A woman? Poet, play or novels?
Cyrano

In a message dated 10/7/2004 9:39:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bjorn.hj@mail.com writes:

<< Elfriede Jelinek, to bad... Our academy vanted to be "advanced".

Björn >>
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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Thanks, Bjorn: Which country? A woman? Poet, play or novels?
Cyrano

In a message dated 10/7/2004 9:39:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bjorn.hj@mail.com writes:

<< Elfriede Jelinek, to bad... Our academy vanted to be "advanced".

Björn >>
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Re: JCO: Nobel prize

Excuse me---someone with this name has just won the Nobel prize for literature?

JCO: Nobel prize

Elfriede Jelinek, to bad... Our academy vanted to be "advanced".

Björn


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